mike93lx
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High outlets don't work well with heavy cords
Seduce me with your EMT runs...
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SouthernIllinois
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Here are my switches and garage door operators. Each wall fan is also on its own switch.
This was a fortunate accident.
On the south end of the shed, I ran the emt near the ceiling and dropped down to the boxes. In the rest of the building I ran emt along the purlins parallel to the floor.
My friend that was helping me mounted this box on the north wall about 9’ off the floor because he thought I was going to run the emt along that purlin and drop them down to boxes.
Now I had a box where I didn’t want it and unwanted holes in the interior metal.
I decided to put a motion light on a switch in that box. It has turned out to be a great feature. It helps light it up when you pull in at night. A lot more light than the openers put out and when you walk in, it turns on before you turn on the ceiling lights. If I want, I can also turn it off with the switch which is below it.
OccupantRJ
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As far as running conduit horizontally along the wall at a lower level, i can all but guarantee the temptation of some people to hang **** from it.
SouthernIllinois
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Like this ….. lol
I only hang my extension cords on it with caliper hooks but only near a box which is screwed into a purlin with 1 1/4” screws.
Ultradog MN
Well-known member
The first thing is to not recess your panel so you CAN run emt.
Hard to get any good photos as there is so much sh1t in here. The panel is fed from the back.
All my lights, furnace and run to the office are done with romex up in the attic. I had a piece of pvc conduit left over so I ran it up into the ceiling as a chase to run those circuits through. 20 amp lighting circuit. I put the door openers on it. The rest of the interior is emt. The 2 runs you see going up and across the ceiling are 50 and 30 amp for my welders.
Two circuits and plenty of 120v 20a outlets 4' high around the walls.
I have a rotary phase converter to run my 3 phase machines so I added a second row of outlets off that so I dont have to plug and unplug them.
I have two 20 amp
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SouthernIllinois
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I put a tool / compressor room in my shed.
I put the panel in an interior wall in it.
I stubbed out emt through the roof of it and then went from there.
I stubbed out a spare piece of emt from the box so I can add circuit in the future if needed.
I put the panel in an interior wall in it.
I stubbed out emt through the roof of it and then went from there.
I stubbed out a spare piece of emt from the box so I can add circuit in the future if needed.
Panel will definitely be surface mounted. I could feed from the back, but then I would just need to stub in from the outside, versus inside through the slab. Unsure how I want to do it..
Looks real good. I've been melting my brain trying to count/plan all the conductors I'll need leaving the panel, conduit/box fill, etc. Was also running into box fill issues when I had the switched stacked vertically, and I don't think I'd want box extensions on the switches.
I reworked the initial runs, little more EMT but it will result in less conductors jammed into 1 conduit, and less of a utter shitshow in that one box mounted near the ceiling, since I'll need to terminate 3 T90 runs into Romex before I stub it into the attic.
SouthernIllinois
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Looks like a good plan.Panel will definitely be surface mounted. I could feed from the back, but then I would just need to stub in from the outside, versus inside through the slab. Unsure how I want to do it..
Looks real good. I've been melting my brain trying to count/plan all the conductors I'll need leaving the panel, conduit/box fill, etc. Was also running into box fill issues when I had the switched stacked vertically, and I don't think I'd want box extensions on the switches.
I reworked the initial runs, little more EMT but it will result in less conductors jammed into 1 conduit, and less of a utter shitshow in that one box mounted near the ceiling, since I'll need to terminate 3 T90 runs into Romex before I stub it into the attic.
I like the software you are using to lay it out - I used a roll of blue masking tape and put tape where I wanted boxes and switches….lol.
I'd probably lay it out if I had the structure up lol, and I'm sure I'll do something similar once the R-Panel is up to get things to lay in the flats nicely.
Sketchup has been really handy to plan the entire thing out, and get everything to scale. Super easy to modify, and I can tag everything in layers and turn them on/off as needed for viewing simplicity.
why? The marginal cost of double duplex is low, and the utility is high. I have never heard anyone say "I wished I'd installed single duplex outlets", but I hear the opposite a lot. Be consistent with circuit layout (circuit 1 on the left, 2 on the right. I try to get different colored hots in the boxes, and consistently use that as a guide.) and it's easy to make sure you plug the saw and vacuum into different circuits, even if they're not right next to each other. Make sure you have some low outlets, as high ones don't work well for heavy cords, nor for long ones -- they can create a tripping hazard when they're stretched out.
That's a fair point, the outlets are quite cheap, maybe I should just do that, then I can have 1 of each circuit per box.
I agree with what you said about some high some low. It's just a hard decision to figure out which ones to drop low. That being said I have plenty of time to figure that out, the difference is only 30" of EMT to drop it lower, so I'll ponder which to lower.
What type of pipe strapping is that? I've seen content of people just using normal EMT straps mounted to the ridges, but I assume it's preferred to have it mounted to something like a stud/blocking.Here are my switches and garage door operators. Each wall fan is also on its own switch.
This was a fortunate accident.
On the south end of the shed, I ran the emt near the ceiling and dropped down to the boxes. In the rest of the building I ran emt along the purlins parallel to the floor.
My friend that was helping me mounted this box on the north wall about 9’ off the floor because he thought I was going to run the emt along that purlin and drop them down to boxes.
Now I had a box where I didn’t want it and unwanted holes in the interior metal.
I decided to put a motion light on a switch in that box. It has turned out to be a great feature. It helps light it up when you pull in at night. A lot more light than the openers put out and when you walk in, it turns on before you turn on the ceiling lights. If I want, I can also turn it off with the switch which is below it.
SouthernIllinois
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Not sure what the actual name is, I got it at Menards by the jar.
It is screwed into the purlin behind the metal.
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Looks like I can get them on Amazon. It looks like you didn't have to bend any offsets of the box either?Not sure what the actual name is, I got it at Menards by the jar.
It is screwed into the purlin behind the metal.
I think when the time comes ill have to play with a few different options and see what works best.
SouthernIllinois
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I would cry
trade name is a minerallac strap, which is probably a brand name. They hold the pipe about 3/8” off the wall, which is usual box hole height. They use a carriage bolt to clamp, with a square hole to keep it from rotating , so they have a up and down orientation.
sparky 1971
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These are better because there is no nut to drop on the floor from 10' high...
www.crawfordelectricsupply.com
And even better are these; no bolt, screw, or nut and they fit both 1/2 and 3/4. For no more than what they are, the price is outrageous but that doesn't stop me from using them 90% of the time.
www.mainelectricsupply.com
Caddy CD0B Bolt Close Conduit/Pipe Clamp, Steel, 1/2" EMT, 1/2" Rigid/Pipe, 0.281" Hole | Crawford Electric Supply
Easy to use, bolt to close conduit and pipe support. Captured hardware facilitates worry-free installation. 1/2" EMT with 1/4" hole.
www.crawfordelectricsupply.com
And even better are these; no bolt, screw, or nut and they fit both 1/2 and 3/4. For no more than what they are, the price is outrageous but that doesn't stop me from using them 90% of the time.
Caddy 812M clip for 1/2" or 3/4" EMT at Main Electric Supply
Conduit and pipe support for suspending from threaded rod, and direct attachment to beam clamp or structure.
www.mainelectricsupply.com
And even better are these; no bolt, screw, or nut and they fit both 1/2 and 3/4. For no more than what they are, the price is outrageous but that doesn't stop me from using them 90% of the time.
Caddy 812M clip for 1/2" or 3/4" EMT at Main Electric Supply
Conduit and pipe support for suspending from threaded rod, and direct attachment to beam clamp or structure.
How to you undo those?
sparky 1971
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Squeeze it together, pop it open with a screwdriver.
3baygarage
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Yep. Well that's my wording as I was playing off the thread title is all. Like I said, good old Mike got the boot none of us on the street ever ran into him again.
Sorry for the sidetrack. Carry on.
SouthernIllinois
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Deep boxes
bluedog225
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this stuff is gold. thanks!
One of the big advantages of EMT is adding stuff. When I installed a minisplit in my garage, the electrical work took less than hour. Drilling the hole in the wall to get outside, and moving stuff so I could access a box buried behind a shelf were the hardest part. Leave room for future expansion, especially in runs leaving the panel. You'll probably need to run conduit when you add stuff, but usually you can add on to an existing run.
sparky 1971
Well-known member
I'll pull a few circuits through each conduit and drop as needed. One pipe might have eight number 12's, the next might have two 8's, two 10's, and two 12's. And 1/2" EMT is a PITA to keep straight when running horizontal, it's just too flimsy and isn't perfectly straight from the factory, requiring more straps; if you're running it off of a ladder more trips up and down are needed vs. 3/4.
Makes sense! I always thought that with so many conductors derating would be an issue, but looking at the book I need over 24 conductors to go below 70% so it makes sense. Planning for 3/4 on the bigger and 1/2 on the drops like you said.
Also since I'm doing drops GFCI breakers seem to make more sense than pigtailing off outlets.. Oh how things add up..
Do you have an average % fill you try to stay below in your boxes? I'm doing the math and one of my outlet boxes seems to be pretty much stuffed to the **** (15mL spare), so I'm thinking I need to rework the layout around the switches.
EDIT:
Disregard, I put my brain to use and managed to swap which switches are what (not both toggles like the picture dictates), and ran some other wires out the top of the panel. I think it came out cleaner anyways and has each box around 330/491mL
Still open to criticism.
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mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
A single gfci receptacle can protect all downstream. You don't have to go to a gfci breakerMakes sense! I always thought that with so many conductors derating would be an issue, but looking at the book I need over 24 conductors to go below 70% so it makes sense. Planning for 3/4 on the bigger and 1/2 on the drops like you said.
Also since I'm doing drops GFCI breakers seem to make more sense than pigtailing off outlets.. Oh how things add up..
Do you have an average % fill you try to stay below in your boxes? I'm doing the math and one of my outlet boxes seems to be pretty much stuffed to the **** (15mL spare), so I'm thinking I need to rework the layout around the switches.
I know, and I probably still could. It would just result in some ******* with the first outlet. Instead of pigtailing a drop at the JB at the ceiling and running down the drop to the outlet, I'd need to run down, pigtail off the hot end of the outlet, run up, and continue on.
Still an option, probably still cheaper too.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
With conduit, that up and down is easy and only needs a little extra of two conductors per circuit
When you do your two circuits per box thing, make sure you aren't sharing neutrals as that will trip the gfci
Two circuits per box is a reason to use a gfci breaker -- a two pole breaker will let you run them as MWBC, saving wire, conduit capacity, and current carrying conductor count.
Check your sources: 24 conductors would put you waaaaaay below 70%, even in CA.
Then you need to consider # conductors and size(s) for conduit fill and box fill.
Table 5C in CEC says that 7-24 insulated conductors has a correction factor of 0.70?
I'm also no where near that at any point, it was just an example. With 3/4" main lines conduit fill isn't really on my radar right now. I'm sure down the road when I'm adding circuits and some 240 runs it will be, but I've been deep in the weeds of box fill.
EDIT: I just looked at the NEC, and the derating tables are vastly different. Here's the CEC for ref:
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Very generous compared to NEC.Table 5C in CEC says that 7-24 insulated conductors has a correction factor of 0.70?
I'm also no where near that at any point, it was just an example. With 3/4" main lines conduit fill isn't really on my radar right now. I'm sure down the road when I'm adding circuits and some 240 runs it will be, but I've been deep in the weeds of box fill.
EDIT: I just looked at the NEC, and the derating tables are vastly different. Here's the CEC for ref:
Check the fine print.....
sparky 1971
Well-known member
Nope. I just go with what seems right for what I'm doing. I try not to stuff the conduit, but it has happened before.
You can do what you want, but if it were me, I'd run the lights the other direction with them butted up end to end, especially if the ceiling is ribbed metal (the ribs will run the long way and you can run the lights between them). At 40' deep (outside dimension), you're closer to 39 on the inside so four 8' fixtures would be about right. You can probably get by with two rows, but I'd have three if it were up to me; one down the middle and the outside rows about 3-4' off the sidewalls. You'd wind up with either two more or two less fixtures, but would eliminate a ton of conduit on the ceiling since you'd only have to pipe to the end fixture of each row then pull the wire through all of the lights. With the rows being 32' long, you could also add a 4' fixture to each row but that's probably overkill.
Still open to criticism.
micromind
Well-known member
Not sure what the actual name is, I got it at Menards by the jar.
It is screwed into the purlin behind the metal.
I've always called those 'Mineralac straps' but they're also known as conduit hangers.
micromind
Well-known member
Coming from a commercial/industrial electrician background, I tend to run a lot of stuff in the slab.
On disadvantage is it's always PVC underground which means I need to pull a ground wire. I don't pull ground wires in rigid, IMC or EMT unless there's a valid reason to.
On disadvantage is it's always PVC underground which means I need to pull a ground wire. I don't pull ground wires in rigid, IMC or EMT unless there's a valid reason to.
sparky 1971
Well-known member
We call 'em minnies. The local supply house carries Minnerallac brand and if you ask for a box of ??" Minnerallac straps from the wrong salesman there's a good chance you find a box of one hole straps when the order comes out but everyone knows what a minnie is.
If you are having this built I would put a fair portion of wiring under the slab and have some 3/4 pvc popping out of the floor and start running emt where it exits the slab.
Making longer runs under the slab from the panel will save a fair amount on labor and material cost. Even if its just to get circuits started on a far wall.
Making longer runs under the slab from the panel will save a fair amount on labor and material cost. Even if its just to get circuits started on a far wall.