Sump Pump Gurus Step Inside
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Bill Bowman
Well-known member
Just because a pump has the Zoeller name, doesn't mean much. I just replaced my Zoeller pump. My plumber friend said usually just replace the switch, but plumbing supply guy laughed when he saw mine. They didn't even have a switch for mine. He said it's a throw away unit, built to a price point by Zoeller. 
Shiftless
Well-known member
I have a 1/3 HP Wayne
My back up is a 1000 watt inverter hooked Up to a group 27 deep cycle battery that I keep charged. Of course, the problem with that is that I have to be home to move the plug from the wall to the inverter. But being retired, that is an acceptable risk for now. I have a power failure audible alarm in the bedroom.
Reading this thread makes me think of finding a separate 12 volt pump with a higher float to put in the pit. I’ll probably have to start all over and dig a bigger pit and get a bigger liner. That sounds like a lot of work. If it floods, there is not much vulnerable to get ruined.
Here in CA it doesn’t rain much but last week and again starting tomorrow 1/4 we are expecting quite a bit.
My back up is a 1000 watt inverter hooked Up to a group 27 deep cycle battery that I keep charged. Of course, the problem with that is that I have to be home to move the plug from the wall to the inverter. But being retired, that is an acceptable risk for now. I have a power failure audible alarm in the bedroom.
Reading this thread makes me think of finding a separate 12 volt pump with a higher float to put in the pit. I’ll probably have to start all over and dig a bigger pit and get a bigger liner. That sounds like a lot of work. If it floods, there is not much vulnerable to get ruined.
Here in CA it doesn’t rain much but last week and again starting tomorrow 1/4 we are expecting quite a bit.
Shiftless
Well-known member
That’s a great set up as long as the switches and pumps stay in good condition. I once had a problem with my pump just humming and not pumping. After I took it apart, I found a small piece of gravel jammed in the impeller. Pulled it out and it worked great.
Thats why I pull the pump once in a while during our dry season and make sure it’s ready for action by immersing in a 5 gal. bucket of water and plugging it in. That also helps flush out any mud inside the pump.
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Tethered vs Vertical float switch?
Seems like higher end ($250+) pumps use the vertical float switch
My last two pumps have had tethered, but could I run a pump withca vertical float?
Seems like higher end ($250+) pumps use the vertical float switch
My last two pumps have had tethered, but could I run a pump withca vertical float?
TETHERED FLOAT SWITCH
A tethered float switch for a sump pump is the most common type. This mechanism has a floating hollow body with a steel ball inside, which is attached to the pump with a cord. As the sump pump float switch pivots, the ball inside moves and activates an electrical switch. You can determine the length of the cord and the level range of the switch.VERTICAL FLOAT SWITCH
Designs may vary, but the vertical float switch will most likely have a floating mechanism connected to a rod on the switch. As the water rises, the float rises and pushes the rod against a lever activating the switch. This type of sump pump float switch is typically more accurate than tether switches. They are best for low-depth, small basins.Bottom of the sump pit should be somewhat pretty clean right? Feels like there's some gravel down there that might need to be cleaned out
The large pipe coming into the pit I think might need to be sealed up better, as there's a 1" gap around the entire pipe
Might need to shopvac out the entire pit, clean the bottom and seal up the gap with hydraulic cement?
The large pipe coming into the pit I think might need to be sealed up better, as there's a 1" gap around the entire pipe
Might need to shopvac out the entire pit, clean the bottom and seal up the gap with hydraulic cement?
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Yeah, I'd clean it out. For the gap, is water coming in through it, if so, it's helping move water to the pump, but is that where the gravel and dirt is coming from?
buzzworth
Well-known member
You said earlier there was sand in the pit. Where is that coming from? That will kill a pump by eating the seals. Clean that pit.
When the pit was installed there should have been filter fabric wrapper around it and any lines that run to it.
When the pit was installed there should have been filter fabric wrapper around it and any lines that run to it.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Now I'm also thinking about HP and discharge pipe length.....
Vertical run is about 9 feet to the ceiling, then horizontal run is about 20 feet where it exits the house. Discharge pipe is buried and goes about 90 feet to the curb
Would 3/4 HP be too much? Is the 1/2 HP over worked and causing early failure or is 6 years a normal life (for a 3 year warranty $150 pump)?
Vertical run is about 9 feet to the ceiling, then horizontal run is about 20 feet where it exits the house. Discharge pipe is buried and goes about 90 feet to the curb
Would 3/4 HP be too much? Is the 1/2 HP over worked and causing early failure or is 6 years a normal life (for a 3 year warranty $150 pump)?
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
When you are dealing with water, is the pump cycling on and off a lot? Setting it up so it kicks on later could reduce cycles.
Higher hp will make it clear faster, but it may also cause more frequent cycling.
Higher hp will make it clear faster, but it may also cause more frequent cycling.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
gagecalman
Well-known member
I'm not a plumber but I've installed about 6 systems for my family and friends.
I use the HydroCheck HC6000 "Hi-Lo Sump Pump Controller". No floats to hang up and no mechanical switches to go bad. There are two sensors so you can set the on/off height where it works best for your situation and to reduce short cycling.
I use them with pumps that don't have floats, like the Liberty Model 230 pumps (manual, no switch).
I also use a Basepump water powered backup sump pump. If you are on city water and not on a well they work great.
I hope this helps.
Jim
I use the HydroCheck HC6000 "Hi-Lo Sump Pump Controller". No floats to hang up and no mechanical switches to go bad. There are two sensors so you can set the on/off height where it works best for your situation and to reduce short cycling.
I use them with pumps that don't have floats, like the Liberty Model 230 pumps (manual, no switch).
I also use a Basepump water powered backup sump pump. If you are on city water and not on a well they work great.
I hope this helps.
Jim
engineer2
Well-known member
Long time sump pump warrior here.
"Anyone using a HD Rigid sump pump?" I had one and it lasted about 2-3 years and quit.
"My backup is a 1000 watt inverter" I was thinking about that with a switchover relay. I talked to an engineer at one of the sump pump companies about that and got the typical engineer answer "You can't do that because it's never been done before!"
"I found a small piece of gravel jammed in the impeller." Got a flooded crawl space because of that.
"Tethered vs Vertical float switch?" I had a tethered switch get hung up by touching the side of the pit. I like a float switch better.
"Bottom of the sump pit should be somewhat pretty clean right?" Yes! clean it in the off-season. You may not need to do it every year.
"Might need to shopvac out the entire pit, clean the bottom and seal up the gap with hydraulic cement?" Yes!
"Should the pump sit on the bottom of the pit or should there be something like a single platform of bricks?" Mine sits on a brick. Keeps it out of the **** in the bottom of the pit.
"Would 3/4 HP be too much?" Never, especially if you get 10" of rain in a day. Your run is pretty long too. 1-1/2" pipe?
I'd say 6 years is not abnormal. A good pump will last 10 and I've seen some last 20.
Some tips:
Use a big hole saw and cut a viewing hole in the metal lid. Cover it with a piece of clear plastic.
Install wye in the pipe and make an air chamber, or buy one. It'll stop the check valve from slapping shut and waking you up at night.
A few backup ideas:
Nothing wrong with a second pump in the pit, a bit higher than the primary pump.
Battery powered backup pumps are often low capacity. If you get a lot of rain, it may not keep up.
There are devices you can buy that will send you a text message if the water level gets too high.
If you get a battery powered backup, make sure it has a "smart" charger. I had one that would cook the water out of the battery in 6 months.
"Anyone using a HD Rigid sump pump?" I had one and it lasted about 2-3 years and quit.
"My backup is a 1000 watt inverter" I was thinking about that with a switchover relay. I talked to an engineer at one of the sump pump companies about that and got the typical engineer answer "You can't do that because it's never been done before!"
"I found a small piece of gravel jammed in the impeller." Got a flooded crawl space because of that.
"Tethered vs Vertical float switch?" I had a tethered switch get hung up by touching the side of the pit. I like a float switch better.
"Bottom of the sump pit should be somewhat pretty clean right?" Yes! clean it in the off-season. You may not need to do it every year.
"Might need to shopvac out the entire pit, clean the bottom and seal up the gap with hydraulic cement?" Yes!
"Should the pump sit on the bottom of the pit or should there be something like a single platform of bricks?" Mine sits on a brick. Keeps it out of the **** in the bottom of the pit.
"Would 3/4 HP be too much?" Never, especially if you get 10" of rain in a day. Your run is pretty long too. 1-1/2" pipe?
I'd say 6 years is not abnormal. A good pump will last 10 and I've seen some last 20.
Some tips:
Use a big hole saw and cut a viewing hole in the metal lid. Cover it with a piece of clear plastic.
Install wye in the pipe and make an air chamber, or buy one. It'll stop the check valve from slapping shut and waking you up at night.
A few backup ideas:
Nothing wrong with a second pump in the pit, a bit higher than the primary pump.
Battery powered backup pumps are often low capacity. If you get a lot of rain, it may not keep up.
There are devices you can buy that will send you a text message if the water level gets too high.
If you get a battery powered backup, make sure it has a "smart" charger. I had one that would cook the water out of the battery in 6 months.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Things I wish I new about for a thousand please, Alex.Install wye in the pipe and make an air chamber, or buy one. It'll stop the check valve from slapping shut and waking you up at night.
Shiftless
Well-known member
My 1/3 HP Wayne pump empties the sump in 8 seconds. In the heaviest rains we have, it takes over 5 minutes to fill the sump. I pump through 1 1/2 inch PVC pipe four feet up and about 6 feet horizontally. I installed a check valve to prevent wasteful backflow. Your mileage may vary.
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mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
My pool cover had a 1/3 hp pump that is rated for 1700 gph with 1 ft of head, 1150 gph at 10ft. Hard to imagine that not being able to keep up in a basement sump pit
bmxdukie
Well-known member
Get a small jetting head that will fit your pressure washer.. AND if that won't work with cold water. Hook up to your hot water tank (this might damage the seals in your washer if its a cheapie) or use a hot water pressure washer like a Dynablast or other brand.
Then put the jetting head on the end of your pressure wash hose. Insert the hose in the discharge pipe (because you have no trigger it will spray right away! ONLY run the washer when the hose is in the pipe!!!)
Then turn on the washer to clear the line.
I do have a check valve........it's old so I just bought a new one
I'm going to plan a day and remove everything from the pit and clean out the bottom really good
Going to add some hydraulic cement around the large gap opening
Going to install a new main pump and maybe even redo some of the pvc setup for both pumps
Just need to decide which hp and which float setup, but I am leaning towards the vertical slide float variant
I'm going to plan a day and remove everything from the pit and clean out the bottom really good
Going to add some hydraulic cement around the large gap opening
Going to install a new main pump and maybe even redo some of the pvc setup for both pumps
Just need to decide which hp and which float setup, but I am leaning towards the vertical slide float variant
Years ago I went to a 1/2 horse powered pump and the electric meter charge was a tremendous difference in increase. So I experimented and went with a 1/3 horse powered unit and being on a creek bottom that flows all the time it works fine and a tremendous electricity savings that adds up quickly! I found out that I really didn't need the extra horse powered pump and all it did was move more water faster.
As I reflect back it was a lot more aggresive and would slam the back flow valve a little harder as the water would try to come back down the pipe, so beside reducing the H. P. motor on the pump I tweaked my set up with an additional Back flow check valve with an air chamber on it, improving the set up tremendously.
LtF
65ranchero
Well-known member
Ex sump operator here, just make sure if you use a vertical sump switch unit make sure it will fit under the sump hole cover.
.I have used many different mfg.s of pumps and they did not last more than 3 to 5 years .
I also had a very high water table with high iron, clay soil and it would clog the impeller of the sump .
Make sure the impeller cover can easily be removed for clean out.
as others have said keep it off the bottom of the pit.
I added a ball valve to 1 1/2 discharge line and closed it off slightly to slow down the flow rate to make the pump run longer and what it did was make more water flow into the pit so more water would be discharged on the duty on cycle. (If it make sense to you).
I also had on stand by an extra 12V pump on the shelf that could be used as a stand alone if all else fails.
In hurricane Sandy we were with out power for 5 days , my got for nothing Generator failed and I needed to keep water from rising in the sumps. so i rigged up jumper cabled to my lawn tractor to run on 12V pump in the back basement and on the other side of the house used my truck with another set of cables to the other 12V pump and kept the water from rising!
.I have used many different mfg.s of pumps and they did not last more than 3 to 5 years .
I also had a very high water table with high iron, clay soil and it would clog the impeller of the sump .
Make sure the impeller cover can easily be removed for clean out.
as others have said keep it off the bottom of the pit.
I added a ball valve to 1 1/2 discharge line and closed it off slightly to slow down the flow rate to make the pump run longer and what it did was make more water flow into the pit so more water would be discharged on the duty on cycle. (If it make sense to you).
I also had on stand by an extra 12V pump on the shelf that could be used as a stand alone if all else fails.
In hurricane Sandy we were with out power for 5 days , my got for nothing Generator failed and I needed to keep water from rising in the sumps. so i rigged up jumper cabled to my lawn tractor to run on 12V pump in the back basement and on the other side of the house used my truck with another set of cables to the other 12V pump and kept the water from rising!
I think all in all you have to do what's best fot you and your set up. Keeping the sump pit area clean is important as the gravel blocked the impeller and clay and dirt debris isn't good either! I only suggested the 1/3 horse that works for my set up as I don't have to pump vertically for 10-20 feet! Different set ups! Stay dry.
LtF
LtF
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
What is a tremendous difference? There's about a 75-100w difference between 1/3 and 1/2 hp. Even if it was running 24/7 and your electric rate was a very high 24 cents, that is $17 a month. At 75 watts and a more typical 15 cents, that's 8 bucks a month. If it ran 8 hrs a day, which is a lot still, you are down to under 3 bucks a month
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I just looked at 5 sites, all said the #1096 has 8.8 amps
www.dkhardware.com
www.zoellerathome.com
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