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The GDS Skunkworks, 4 FN 27's Shop Projects

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4 FN 27

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Bob Heine said:
Pat, you should start a thread: "Stuff We Never Dreamed Of."

I always knew there was amazing stuff going on behind the scenes. I mean things you never saw in the pits that made the difference. The big towels draped over carts weren't just keeping the goodies clean, I suspect they were hiding the secrets that made a winner, not an 'also ran.'
Click to expand...

Great idea Bob, but how do I know you or anyone else didn't dream of it???

Pro Stock is a monkey see monkey do. We had a White Board just inside the door of the trailer so you could see it from the back of the trailer. We would put wrong Rear End and Transmission gear ratios on the board. Every once and a while you would see some one take a picture of it or write a note.

On occasion we would leave a Transmission out with the wrong ratios written on it...again the pics and the notes. We always played our own game...but we did keep our eyes and ears open.

When we started making headway into our Engine Program we did start to cover things up. This was a new Intake design just prior to the Virginia race in 2006. Jerry wanted it covered so he emailed me the Cad Model and I fabbed up the cover.

DSC07098.JPG

And we had R&D Intakes that we didn't care who saw them or what they looked like. Epoxy is a Porters best friend at times.

DSC07091.JPG

Then there is the top secret room. Cylinder Heads, Intakes, Carbs and Shear Plate development. All kinds of stuff went in and out of here. Dyno sessions could last for days trying different combinations.

IMG_1057.JPG

In 2005 I visited Warren Johnson's shop. He gave me the full tour except the Upstairs Top Secret R&D storage area. He said he wouldn't even let his wife Arlene go up there.

Bob Heine said:
I'll have to look for mine. For several decades we hosted Train Parties. Celebrated my Luckiest Day once every five years and only gifts allowed were gag gifts. A guest cut one of the cuffs off a pair and put a "Heinecuff" sign on the dangling chain.
Click to expand...

As I was typing the reply about Hand-Cuffs, I did ask myself, "how would you hand-cuff Bob?".

Now I know...you use the "Heinecuff". There, a thing I didn't know!!!

NUTTSGT said:
There's the story of ol' Bob Glidden (RIP) wrecking and he was out of the car before the safety safari got there and put his fire jacket over the exposed engine to hide it from prying eyes.
Click to expand...

I remember hearing that or reading that.

I am sure there are plenty of stories like that only the Tech Inspectors would know.

NUTTSGT said:
Getting the bug to race again Pat ?
Click to expand...

The thought does cross my mind from time to time. The peer pressure pops up once and a while with the guys mentioning putting the band back together. But then the reality of it all settles in and back to reality we go.

This past fall I was asked to pilot a Nostalgia Front Engine Dragster for a local club. While enticing, I declined knowing once you put that meth pipe down you had better not pick it up again...the consequences become real and my Wife's anxiety level goes through the roof.

Good to look back at the memories, the laughs, the friendships, the craziness of it all but I put those things in a jar with the lid on tight. Set the jar up on a shelf. Once and a while I can pick up and look at the jar but I don't take the lid off of it.
 
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NUTTSGT

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4 FN 27 said:
Great idea Bob, but how do I know you or anyone else didn't dream of it???

Pro Stock is a monkey see monkey do. We had a White Board just inside the door of the trailer so you could see it from the back of the trailer. We would put wrong Rear End and Transmission gear ratios on the board. Every once and a while you would see some one take a picture of it or write a note.

On occasion we would leave a Transmission out with the wrong ratios written on it...again the pics and the notes. We always played our own game...but we did keep our eyes and ears open.

When we started making headway into our Engine Program we did start to cover things up. This was a new Intake design just prior to the Virginia race in 2006. Jerry wanted it covered so he emailed me the Cad Model and I fabbed up the cover.

DSC07098.JPG

And we had R&D Intakes that we didn't care who saw them or what they looked like. Epoxy is a Porters best friend at times.

DSC07091.JPG

Then there is the top secret room. Cylinder Heads, Intakes, Carbs and Shear Plate development. All kinds of stuff went in and out of here. Dyno sessions could last for days trying different combinations.

IMG_1057.JPG

In 2005 I visited Warren Johnson's shop. He gave me the full tour except the Upstairs Top Secret R&D storage area. He said he wouldn't even let his wife Arlene go up there.



As I was typing the reply about Hand-Cuffs, I did ask myself, "how would you hand-cuff Bob?".

Now I know...you use the "Heinecuff". There, a thing I didn't know!!!



I remember hearing that or reading that.

I am sure there are plenty of stories like that only the Tech Inspectors would know.



The thought does cross my mind from time to time. The peer pressure pops up once and a while with the guys mentioning putting the band back together. But then the reality of it all settles in and back to reality we go.

This past fall I was asked to pilot a Nostalgia Front Engine Dragster for a local club. While enticing, I declined knowing once you put that meth pipe down you had better not pick it up again...the consequences become real and my Wife's anxiety level goes through the roof.

Good to look back at the memories, the laughs, the friendships, the craziness of it all but I put those things in a jar with the lid on tight. Set the jar up on a shelf. Once and a while I can pick up and look at the jar but I don't take the lid off of it.
Click to expand...
FYI, Bob would get either shackled or I believe they have a leather belt with a steel ring in the back. One cuff on the wrist and the other in the ring

Don't worry Bob, I carry a cuff key. ... you too Pat.

:beer:

I thought maybe you were going to dabble when you mentioned tube chassis and the Chevelle.

I'll probably sit out this year since NMRA/NMCA shut the doors.
 
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4 FN 27

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Lots going on at the Skunkworks...most of which I cannot share out of respect for my customers. I have squeezed in a few of my own projects.

Made a trip to Iowa and picked up a Mac Tool Box to get my Firearms parts/spares inventory sorted. Have been meaning to do this for a few years now. Need to gather and consolidate everything but that only does one good if there is some place to put it all.

Found a nice Box at a good price on FBMP. 7 hour round trip drive and well worth it. The box was in the back corner of a Body Shop and the owner had not opened it in 10 years. Other than being a little dirty/dusty everything was in working order.

IMG_7190.JPG

I took it apart and cleaned from the inside out. Drawer Liner are perfect.

IMG_7193.JPG

Fits in perfect in it's new home inside the Vault.

IMG_7200.JPG

I am going to replace the Wheels with Legs eventually so I did not spend any time cleaning them up. It also makes a nice place for the 3D Printer.

And the inventory begins...

IMG_7205.JPG

In between I designed and printed more Wall and Slatwall Mounts. A few start from scratch with the Faro Arm and a few remakes to present better.

IMG_7174.JPG

Now that I have the momentum, it is time to finish this room after 10 years of being in the building!!!

Tried a bucket trap in the old Shed. 4 weeks yielded 13 mice.

IMG_7235.JPG

One of MN fastest Mustangs is back. Making some top secret mods.

IMG_7234.JPG

Needed some reverse engineering data from the "trunk" area.

IMG_7247.JPG

Probing surfaces gets the ol'Laptop smok'in.

IMG_7248.JPG

IMG_7251.JPG

To be continued...
 
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4 FN 27

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Now that we have the data, the design work begins, then fabrication and installation.

IMG_7252.JPG

Should have this wrapped up in a few weeks. We are on a temporary hold until we get a few answers on rules.

I was a the Plant last week and saw these things going together. Since they are not branded yet I can show them. We have been building the Air units for about 10 years now.

IMG_7232.JPG

A few weeks ago a buddy of mine called and said he had some Scotchbrite he wanted to get rid of. I figured it was a box or 2...well to me this might be a lifetime supply of Roloc Disks.

IMG_7169.JPG

Sure beats sending them to the landfill!!!

Off to the shop I go. Have a great day!!!
 
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4 FN 27

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cvairwerks said:
Pat: What's the toy on the new box, that is missing the sideplate? PM if you don't want to publically disclose what it is.
Click to expand...

M1919 Parts Gun. Missing a few components including the Side Plate which is the registered item on a Browning Belt Fed configuration.

Someday I hope to find a Registered Side Plate on a Form 4 for it or get my 07/SOT and machine one. This old soldier deserves to be back in service!!!
 
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4 FN 27 said:
M1919 Parts Gun. Missing a few components including the Side Plate which is the registered item on a Browning Belt Fed configuration.

Someday I hope to find a Registered Side Plate on a Form 4 for it or get my 07/SOT and machine one. This old soldier deserves to be back in service!!!
Click to expand...
I thought it might be a .30 cal but it looks so small.
 
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4 FN 27

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NUTTSGT said:
I thought it might be a .30 cal but it looks so small.
Click to expand...

30 Cal, 308 Izzy conversion. 41 inches overall. Pictures due to the BATFE questioning a Firearm that has had multiple transfers since 1968 using all the same Form 4 information. Some examiners pick the pepper out of the fly **** at midnight wearing sunglasses and boxing gloves...each delay takes another 30 days +/- for approval.

IMG_2561 Mod.jpg
 
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4 FN 27

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cvairwerks said:
Figured that's what it was. I'm trying to find some drawings for a sight set and the barrel jacket for an AN-M2 .30, to build a non firing replica for one of my airplane projects. The particular rear sight is hard to find and is big bucks when one comes on the market.
Click to expand...

Checked my files and I don't have any Prints for the AN-M2. Finding information on those is pretty tough. I have one source I will ping in the morning. If anyone would have it, this guy would. He builds 50 Cal M2's for the Government and restores Brownings.

If all else fails, I know a guy that might be able to reverse engineer the Barrel Shroud.

IMG_7255.JPG
 
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Pat: That would be great if either of them have one laying around that could be measured. I know of one shroud with the booster on it that is available, but it's large bucks and I'd much rather leave usable/NOS stuff out there for the guys that are building or restoring live weapons. Mine is just going to be a dummy that is close enough to fool someone at 5 feet or so. I'd appreciated you asking them about an L-2 rear sight and an A-9 front as well. The L-2's are scarce and command big bucks as well and the A-9 makes the L-2 look like a common part on availability.

If you want a copy, I've got a pdf of the Ordinance Department 1919A4 manufacturing book, which has a complete set of drawings.

On a side note, I've been over on 1919A4.com for a while, and none of the crew over there have ever seen any of the AN-M2 .30 drawings as well. I do have the AAF drawing numbers for the gun and the sights, but have not been able to track down copies of them yet.
 
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4 FN 27 said:
A few weeks ago a buddy of mine called and said he had some Scotchbrite he wanted to get rid of. I figured it was a box or 2...well to me this might be a lifetime supply of Roloc Disks.

IMG_7169.JPG

Sure beats sending them to the landfill!!!

Off to the shop I go. Have a great day!!!
Click to expand...


I'm jealous of so much here Pat, but especially having a lifetime supply of Roloc disks. :love:
 
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4 FN 27 said:
...Pro Stock is a monkey see monkey do. We had a White Board just inside the door of the trailer so you could see it from the back of the trailer. We would put wrong Rear End and Transmission gear ratios on the board. Every once and a while you would see some one take a picture of it or write a note.

On occasion we would leave a Transmission out with the wrong ratios written on it...again the pics and the notes. We always played our own game...but we did keep our eyes and ears open...
Click to expand...

Same thing with dirt track racers... probably true for any racing.

If my buddy's car was ever on display, they'd make a point to jack up the suspension settings just enough not to be obviously wrong, but hopefully get someone else to try it for a heat race and realize they'd been had. Another one was ballast weight placement and the use of hollow weights. They might show up with a weight mounted in an odd spot, only to move/remove it right before hitting the track. He also liked using hollow weights - weld up a piece of square tube and cast it into block of lead so that what looks like a 50lb weight might only weigh 20-30lbs. I probably shaved a few years off my life helping him melt down old tire weights in his garage a few times. Along with that, apparently his Dad would stamp false TDC marks (along with other shenanigans that I never fully understood) when building engines in order to trip up the competition if an engine ever got claimed.
 
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4 FN 27

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cvairwerks said:
Pat: That would be great if either of them have one laying around that could be measured. I know of one shroud with the booster on it that is available, but it's large bucks and I'd much rather leave usable/NOS stuff out there for the guys that are building or restoring live weapons. Mine is just going to be a dummy that is close enough to fool someone at 5 feet or so. I'd appreciated you asking them about an L-2 rear sight and an A-9 front as well. The L-2's are scarce and command big bucks as well and the A-9 makes the L-2 look like a common part on availability.

If you want a copy, I've got a pdf of the Ordinance Department 1919A4 manufacturing book, which has a complete set of drawings.

On a side note, I've been over on 1919A4.com for a while, and none of the crew over there have ever seen any of the AN-M2 .30 drawings as well. I do have the AAF drawing numbers for the gun and the sights, but have not been able to track down copies of them yet.
Click to expand...

My source did not pan out. But I have a Barrel Shroud and Barrel. They happen to be attached the ANM2 in the pic.

I'll see what I can do to reverse engineer it in the next week or so.

I don't have the sights, however I downloaded some pictures yesterday of the sights and I have a software that can use the pictures to create profiles and then scale them accordingly. Haven't used this portion of the Water Jet Software so there will be a learning curve.

Reverse Engineering the complete ANM2 might be in the near future. This piece of history in Firearms needs to be documented. I suspect the tolerancing will be up for debate. Using Browning 50 Cal and 30 Cal (M1919) tolerances as references from existing prints can add value.

I would love to have a copy of the OD 1919A4 Manf Book. I started collecting all kinds of manufacturing info on Machine Guns. PM coming your way!!!
 
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4 FN 27

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IBEW702 said:
I'll guess Casey General Store on the air machine.
Click to expand...

:) There are multiple brandings. Not sure which these ended up shipping as.

zmotorsports said:
Love the TIG rod holder Pat. Looks like you've got a similar problem with needing to keep a wide variety of filler rod on hand. Never know what might come through the door.
Click to expand...

Thank you Mike!!! Yep!!! I hate not having the right stuff for the job.

NUTTSGT said:
Cool tig cart ? I would have thought you would have color coded to the material.
Click to expand...

Thank you. Thought about it...but labeling works too. With the lights off they are all the same color. :)

IBEW702 said:
Also, do I have to be the first to ask about the pallet of 50 Cal ammo cans in the background?
Click to expand...

SilverJimmy said:
I bet Pat is working on some ”empty” ammo can brackets like the ones SWAG makes……
Ya, you betcha! I bet they’ll be really cool!
Click to expand...

Let's just say consolidation and organizing. Seems to be a "Climate Shift" in MN...thus it is time to make things mobile/moveable. Eyes are on TN or SD...the Wife is doing her research.

T444e said:
Is the there anything Pat makes that isn't really cool?
Click to expand...

lilscorpion said:
Nope. I suspect you’d be hard pressed to find a single thing in his shop that isn’t mostly rad.
Click to expand...

Chris F said:
A freshly laid weld bead.:LOL:
Click to expand...

Thanks guys. I am flattered. As I mention in @zmotorsports thread last week...just trying not to let the education I got over the years go to waste. My educators, all of them put in their time with me...it has always been time for me to put in mine validating their efforts!

NUTTSGT said:
Run out of fasteners ?
Click to expand...

Nope. Left 2 out for the Handle I thought of as I was assembling.
 
Last edited:
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Chris F

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Where ever you wind up moving to I hope they have internet available so we can keep up with the activities at the "Skunkworks." Otherwise I would have to move next door to ya.:unsure: Wait a minute, disregard that!
 
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4 FN 27 said:
Let's just say consolidation and organizing. Seems to be a "Climate Shift" in MN...thus it is time to make things mobile/moveable. Eyes are on TN or SD...the Wife is doing her research.
Click to expand...

WOW Pat. That about knocked me over. I didn't think I'd ever see you even think about moving.

You have such an awesome estate where to are at, I'm intrigued to see what your next place looks like.
 
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4 FN 27 said:
Eyes are on TN or SD...the Wife is doing her research.
Click to expand...
-Several members here live in Tennessee and could provide info, as residents, if wanted. Long distance research doesn't always tell the whole story. On the chance for you and I to be neighbors I'm willing to throw in a chocolate doughnut to help sway your decision.
 
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4 FN 27

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SilverJimmy said:
And, if you do move to SD and then get back into racing it’ll be easier to justify that really bitchin hauler/trailer combo.….
Click to expand...

LOL...do you know a good divorce attorney?

zmotorsports said:
WOW Pat. That about knocked me over. I didn't think I'd ever see you even think about moving.

You have such an awesome estate where to are at, I'm intrigued to see what your next place looks like.
Click to expand...

Been thinking about it for a while now. I do love the place but...I mean 25 minutes from the airport and we are zoned A2 Agricultural. 5 minutes to nothing and 5 minutes from everything. A blessing to have to drive slowly behind a combine or drive around a horse on the way to Menards 9 minutes away.

RoninB4 said:
-Several members here live in Tennessee and could provide info, as residents, if wanted. Long distance research doesn't always tell the whole story. On the chance for you and I to be neighbors I'm willing to throw in a chocolate doughnut to help sway your decision.
Click to expand...

I have a pretty good read on TN. Know a few people who live there and some who are MN transplants.

My needs are simple: Paved Road out front, 3 phase power, NFA friendly and no HOA. Jerry old shop fits that bill.

My Wife on the other hand has a spread sheet with the +'s and -'s of each state to meet her needs.

bugnut said:
Pat, so very sad to read. Good luck on the decision and search.
Click to expand...

Thank you...we will at least buy the dirt at this time.

NUTTSGT said:
Yes, but there's ground hogs around here...not an open prairie and they tend to run .

Not a long distance shoot either.... although Camp Perry is close to here.
Click to expand...

LOL...Eric. We have Ground Hogs here. They only get dispatched when digging under the foundations or getting into the old Shed.

My Wife has her eyes on the Mountain States.



On a lighter note, Saturday I went up to the old shop to look at a project my Nephew is working on. His buddy got this Chevelle from his Dad. The Car has been sitting for quite a while. 396 325 HP ( I think), 4-Speed car. Pretty clean. The Nephew is going to help get it running.

IMG_7274.JPG

IMG_7275.JPG

IMG_7273.JPG

IMG_7276.JPG

Looking the car over it appears to be unmolested other than the Drivers Side Quarter Panel may have been repainted. There is a little overspray on the Window Felt. All the bolts in the Engine Compartment look original and the Trunk Spatter Paint is still intact.

In the process of going through things in the shop I came across some pictures from 1982-83. My buddy and his 1970 Lemans Sport. This burnout happens to be about a 1/2 mile south of my house. I took these pics and text them to all who were involved. We got a good laugh.

IMG_7278.JPG

IMG_7279.JPG

The barn you see to the left is a property where there were 40 acres of old cars. The ol'man wouldn't let anyone on the property. I asked a few time back in the day. He was nice about it.

Junkyard.jpg

He passed in 2013-14 and his Wife had the cars scrapped. They brought in a crusher and hauled them out a semi load at a time. Sad.

Today it is a development, 10 acre minimum with HOA, meaning no out buildings. The "Citiots" are encroaching...

Off to the shop I go!!!

Enjoy the day!!!
 
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4 FN 27 said:
Been thinking about it for a while now. I do love the place but...I mean 25 minutes from the airport and we are zoned A2 Agricultural. 5 minutes to nothing and 5 minutes from everything. A blessing to have to drive slowly behind a combine or drive around a horse on the way to Menards 9 minutes away.
Click to expand...

This pretty much describes our place now Pat. We can be dropped into downtown Ogden directly east of us in less than 10-minutes where we have some local restaurants and businesses that we frequent. I have a Motion Industries for bearing needs, Bolt & Nut Supply, Eric's House of Hose, Grainger and an automotive paint supply house all within two blocks of one another and less than 5 minutes from my home just south and east. I have a local NAPA about 10-minutes east and slightly north of our home. All of which I frequent and at times take for granted. The traffic however, has gotten a bit more congested over the past 3 years since our previous city mayor approved a metric ****-ton of high density housing before she was voted out of office. We still have the remnants of her mess, but the mayor and city council now are doing a fairly good job of controlling the housing situation, at least the best they can.

Even as the traffic has gotten a bit denser over the last several years, housing prices have kept many away from our immediate area and it is nowhere near as hectic or chaotic as it was in the county and city that we left 8 years ago. I couldn't get out of there fast enough once we committed to moving.



4 FN 27 said:
On a lighter note, Saturday I went up to the old shop to look at a project my Nephew is working on. His buddy got this Chevelle from his Dad. The Car has been sitting for quite a while. 396 325 HP ( I think), 4-Speed car. Pretty clean. The Nephew is going to help get it running.


IMG_7274.JPG



IMG_7273.JPG



Looking the car over it appears to be unmolested other than the Drivers Side Quarter Panel may have been repainted. There is a little overspray on the Window Felt. All the bolts in the Engine Compartment look original and the Trunk Spatter Paint is still intact.
Click to expand...


Hell yeah, that's a sweet Chevelle. There are days I miss our old Chevelle.
 
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I get it Pat, really do.

Sounds like you have a real want in Jerry's place but I would guess the wife doesn't care about the house or such.

I just prefer the rural areas. Yeah, short drive to more that what is local but it's worth the quietness... funny you mentioned 3 phase. There's been more and more farmers upgrading to it with their grain set ups.

Starting over and building from scratch is going to take a few dimes. Which is probably something you know and a non-issue.
 
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To Eric's point, when we were looking for our new place, our realtor friend was working hard (almost too hard) to find us an existing place with the shop already built to save money. While I appreciated the gesture and what he was trying to do, we just couldn't find what we were looking for.

He did find us a nice home just a bit further west of where we are now that was a ranch style home with a "huge" shop in the backyard. The advertisement/listing even stated "bring your biggest RV". What I found was that it was only 38' deep. Granted his 36' coach stuffed inside fit, but barely. We really wanted to like the house, but it was about the same era as the house we were leaving so not quite what we wanted as far as an upgrade. I kept telling him that the shop only exists in my head and that I appreciated that he was trying to save us money, but to focus on finding us the house with the property and we'll take care of the shop.

In addition to my comments above about being so close to surrounding businesses that I frequent, I also like that we routinely encounter farm implement traffic such as balers, swathers, manure spreaders and plows driving around west of us and I love that. Some neighbors get frustrated by the delays they cause, but in all honesty, how much of a delay is it really? A few minutes as the farmers/ranchers go from one field the other. That's not a big deal to me and I sure love the farming community feeling, even if it is disappearing.

I love being in the country to travel behind farm equipment but can be in the middle of the city in 10-minutes.
 
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You guys are describing exactly what my wife and I found here in Prescott! Added bonus is all the like minded friends we’ve made here. And I‘m living the dream getting to be part of this group of Bonneville racers!
6C215696-4193-484D-B139-8C6F3BF2D343.jpeg
The only thing they really ask of me is “When are you bringing your car to the shop so we can get it ready to race?”! I actually get to work on all of these amazing race cars!
 
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