Could be, but the grooves were almost punched in, folded over so the slide wouldn’t drop. They were a lot more aggressive prior to me polishing it. Could have been the drill, but I doubt it.
hub.catalogit.app
Also interesting is the lock nut similarity to Starrett.Here is an Atlas Tool Co NY combo square image I found online. Interesting that it has the grid pattern of the old Starrett, and the Union loop ish metal border. Also interesting in that it is in a Starrett museum R&D collection. Love the long handle on the scribe.
Starrett Museum - Combination Square Atlas Tool Co. 12 Inch
I know it’s useful for drafting work, 1”=1’, so maybe scaling drawings to the real world
Rafter table is on the other side. This side is marked in 1/12 ft. on the outer side.^^ that may be a rafter table. Read the catalog for more clarity
Stanley Tools for Carpenters and Mechanics : Catalogue No. 34 : 1926 : The Stanley Rule & Level Plant : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
196 p., illus., 17.8 cm, trade catalogarchive.org
Looks good. How did you refinish the black and white one?Here are a couple of Fulton 8" x 12" squares also marked Made in USA and BL. The BL indicates they were made for Sears by Sargent. The two squares are almost identical except that the black one also has a hang hole at the 1 1/4" area. Both were refinished. One with nickel plating and one black with white numbers. Both are blank on the back. An interesting thing is that the inside scales are in 1/8" spacing while the outside is in 1/12" spacing. Who uses 1/12"?
I used a gun blue first. Got several from Brownells a few years ago. My first attempt was the OXPHO-Blue on the smooth backside. It didn't work. Probably because the square is not tool or gun steel but a softer steel. Cleaned that off and used Formula 44/40. It worked better, but still had issues. Cleaned it off and washed the square with denatured alcohol. That worked. I was hoping the gun blue would work because if I used a paint it would fill the lines and numbers more. For the white I used a wax-like lacquer stick. Rub it in and wipe it off. Finally, I sprayed it with a clear lacquer.
Never heard of any of the Sears Fulton tools being made in Germany?Here is an interesting Fulton square made in Germany. It is similar to the P.L. Fox patent of Nov. 24, 1885 (331047) which was improved by three patents from R.A. Breul, Aug. 23, 1904 (768324), Apr. 12, 1921 (1374815 and 1374816). These patents all used stamped steel components and all had fixed beams. This Fulton one though has a movable beam. On the front side there are degree markings at 15, 25, 35, 45, 55, 65. There are also four square holes. Measuring from the one closest to the point, the other holes are at 6", 7" and 8". The back side has a rule 10" long. I did find a catalog picture of the Fox design in the 1933 Spiegel Brothers catalog, page 34. I did not see this Fulton square in the United Hardware & Tool catalog. Perhaps it was sold by Sears?
Sears definitely had tools made in Germany. Probably from multiple suppliers. I will post some examples soon.
I have a 10-inch cobra-design wrench made by Knipex but badged as Craftsman, with COO stamped "Germany."
Upside-down nut? Camera operator does OK as one, but without knurls. Think there's a safety issue?
Guessing either stripped or installed by the unknowing.
The fit is perfect. I took everything apart & cleaned it. The fit is nice & tight. I don't think it's Starrett. I pulled one of my Starrett's out & the Bates rule is definitely thinner (pic below). I tried to put my Starrett rule in & it won't fit, to thick.
I think Bates was one of the companies who merged to form Union tool co.
Good call. History below. Wander when Bates began though?
www.worthpoint.com
Good find. That's a cool history. Too bad there wasn't a pic. Seems the Bates marked square was short lived.If that's a Bates square, they must have copied Starrett's design, right down to the nut.
I copied this from a Worthpoint page. Unfortunately, it doesn't have a photo of the square.
Vintage Bates Mfg. Co 12" Combo Square Tough Find | #49285315
Vintage Bates Mfg. Co 12 Combo Square Tough Find is a very unusual find, a Bates Mfg. Co 12 Combo square in good + condition, no issues at all aside from light pitting on one end of rule on one side
"Vintage Bates Mfg. Co 12" Combo Square Tough Find is a very unusual find, a Bates Mfg. Co 12" Combo square in good + condition, no issues at all aside from light pitting on one end of rule on one side. Very good aside from that. offers this brief history on this company, which was not around for too long.... " Founded as the Union Caliper Company in 1908, the business had been organized by Emory E. Ellis at Fitchburg, Massachusetts, for the purpose of making calipers and dividers for machinists. In 1911, the Union Caliper Company acquired the Indiana-based Hill Standard Tool Company and was moved to a larger site in Orange , Massachusetts. The combined operations occupied four times the floor space that had been available in the old location, and the purchase of Hill Standard Tool added thickness gages, tapes, and feeler gages to the lineup. A second operation, the Bates Manufacturing Company, a producer of steel rules, combination squares and hacksaw frames located in Fitchburg, was sold to Union Caliper Company on Nov. 21, 1913, for $5,000. John Clayton Bates , the founder of Bates Manufacturing , continued to supervise the operation after the buyout. In 1915, J.C. Bates moved to Orange to become manager of the Union Caliper Company; the measuring tool and hacksaw operations moved with him. With the operation making center punches, dividers, machine vises, hack saws, measuring tools, nail sets, lathe and planer accessories and add-ons for automatic screw machines, the company's original name no longer reflected its product line. In 1916, Emory E. Ellis and the directors of the Union Caliper Company changed the name of the business to the Union Tool Company. When Ellis died at age fifty-four on November 11, 1924, he left behind a growing company that was doing nicely. (By 1930, the Union tool Company was capitalized at $400,000 and had one hundred employees on payroll.) J.C Bates continued as the firm's manager. With Bates at the helm, measuring tools became increasingly important part of the Union Tool operation, and t is evidence that the company was supplying combination squares to Millers Falls well before the 1957 buyout. John Clayton Bates died on November 15, 1956—a year before the Millers Falls Company acquired Union Tool. "
The thumb nut design you point out I believe was a popular design used by other manufacturers as well. I suppose until some specific information or pics are found on Bates, there is no way to say for certain.
www.garagejournal.com
According to the Union Tool Company section of this Millers Falls history, Union Tool continued to label various tools with the Bates name through the 1920s. https://oldtoolheaven.com/millers-falls/history/history11.htm
Look at the size of the scribe handles in this 1882 ad for Starrett squares. I have some Starrett scribes with large handles as well. The nuts look shorter back then too.
