Private Lugnutz
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'Not I,' said the blind man. None of my
Where have we seen that before? I can't find it in a search.
Seems part of or related to this...
Spreading the Bonney affliction!
- Thread starter bonneyman
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Where have we seen that before? I can't find it in a search.
Seems part of or related to this...
Private Lugnutz
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What does that say under "BONNEY (CV) SOCKETS" on the front top drawer?
F O_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ U T Y?
F O_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ U T Y?
... I completely forgot about it till I saw the pictures as a reminder... I should have bought it... Unfortunately was dealing with a lot of things including an emergency at a time and it slipped my mind
FOR (probably R) ________ _ _ _ UTY
FOR (probably R) ________ _ _ _ UTY
Mintgrun
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FOR HEAVY DUTY fits pretty well.
Private Lugnutz
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Indeed. It does.
But, and it's a pretty big one, it would explicitly refer to only one thing in Bonney literature: 3/4-inch drive. (Which they also branded their "Hercules" line.)
They were very consistent in their drive tool naming conventions. "Extra Small" (9/32-, then 1/4-inch), "Small" (3/8-inch), "Standard" (1/2-inch), "Heavy-Duty" (3/4-inch), and "Extra Heavy-Duty" (1-inch).
To double check myself, I used the search feature in IA/ITCL to search every Bonney brochure and catalog from 1927 to 1948 on the word "duty". To double-check those results against open market literature, I also searched dozens of late 1920's and 1930's periodicals (trade mags, etc) with Bonney advertising on Google Books.
The word "Duty" never appears in any context other than in reference to the 3/4- and 1/-inch drive tools and sockets, preceded by the word "Heavy" or Extra Heavy", mainly with, and sometimes without a hyphen.
I can find no instance of it appearing in any other more generic context, or - more to the point, and to fully reveal the source of my puzzlement about the marking under the "BONNEY (CV) SOCKETS" marking - it is never associated with "Standard" (1/2-inch drive).
Is that merchandiser proportionally sized for 3/4-inch drive sockets?
Or is that another word?
Space wise, agreed, it seems to, but see above.
At this point I want to see an "H". But I can't un-see a letter with closure at the top. A "C" or something like it. The problem is I can't conceive of another more logical word, and circling back to my reply to Tom, even if I could, it would be inconsistent with their literature.
Mostly agree, Lugz; I thought the same of “heavy” tagging 3/4dr components, too, but I think our most hopeful revelation will be in the form of an advertising illustration. (What is the source of the one you posted? I don’t recall it.)
Kind of rabdomly, I noticed the lower drawer has a thicker appearance, maybe just boxing in the front panel to resist buckling, because the front-to-back slots would not contribute strength that direction (upper drawer has side-to-side slots). But I also wonder what the two extra appendages are (red circled).
Then there’s ”4252,” which could be a 1/2dr part number, but maybe is the display kit number (so text-searcheable).
Kind of rabdomly, I noticed the lower drawer has a thicker appearance, maybe just boxing in the front panel to resist buckling, because the front-to-back slots would not contribute strength that direction (upper drawer has side-to-side slots). But I also wonder what the two extra appendages are (red circled).
Then there’s ”4252,” which could be a 1/2dr part number, but maybe is the display kit number (so text-searcheable).
Private Lugnutz
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If you mean the Counter Clerk, I just found it when searching Google Books for this mystery merchandiser. I'm convinced it's related. The marking on the socket cabinet is identical to the marking on this 3/4-inch drive jobbie.
Could it be for the Hercules ratchet? As cool as that would be, also seems awkward.
Nice work. I was fixated on the obscured marking. That pretty much confirms "FOR HEAVY DUTY".
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
^ I just went looking for my Hercules ratchet to visualize how it would sit on that drawer face (head through the loop on left, hanging hole on that ledge on the right! 
), which also fits dimensionally (box is 23" wide, ratchet is 20" OAL), until I remembered that YOU have it!
I know it was part of a massive MASSIVE in-person trade, but please don't remind me what I got in return, because I'm feeling like I was temporarily insane and would rather imagine it being something really great!
), which also fits dimensionally (box is 23" wide, ratchet is 20" OAL), until I remembered that YOU have it! I know it was part of a massive MASSIVE in-person trade, but please don't remind me what I got in return, because I'm feeling like I was temporarily insane and would rather imagine it being something really great!
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Here's the link for the Bonney Counter Clerk ad, LS. 1927 Automotive Merchandising. I used every combination of Bonney, Sockets, Counter Clerk, Heavy Duty, and other terms to try to find this 3/4-inch drive complement on Google Books and have so far struck out.
Automotive Merchandising
www.google.com
Private Lugnutz
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JonahBrown
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Yes. The bottom was ate up with wood worms and had to be replaced.I looked at it, forgot about it and was not available when it sold. It sold for $152 (with shipping) I wonder if it went to somebody on GJ...
Decided to add it to the thread for the future records...
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JonahBrown
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The bottom drawer is labeled for the 3/4” socketsMaybe not its intent, but I had fun installing the "Hercules" ratchet I no longer own on the 'FOR HEAVY DUTY' ("Hercules") marked merchandiser I have never owned, and if I had both, I would probably do this for display.
JonahBrown
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It has the 3/4” part numbers.Mostly agree, Lugz; I thought the same of “heavy” tagging 3/4dr components, too, but I think our most hopeful revelation will be in the form of an advertising illustration. (What is the source of the one you posted? I don’t recall it.)
Kind of rabdomly, I noticed the lower drawer has a thicker appearance, maybe just boxing in the front panel to resist buckling, because the front-to-back slots would not contribute strength that direction (upper drawer has side-to-side slots). But I also wonder what the two extra appendages are (red circled).
Then there’s ”4252,” which could be a 1/2dr part number, but maybe is the display kit number (so text-searcheable).
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Yes, LS spotted them earlier,
...confirming Tom (@Mintgrun) 's reading of the obscured marking as...
...and my note that...
If I am correctly interpreting this statement...
...and your photos of a cleaned-up box (with a now very legible marking...)
...to mean you were the guy who bought it, CONGRATS!
If you have a Hercules ratchet, I would really love to see if my wild conjecture is just wild conjecture or if that loop and bracket really will hold one!
JonahBrown
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Unfortunately I do not have one of those ratchets.Yes, LS spotted them earlier,
...confirming Tom (@Mintgrun) 's reading of the obscured marking as...
...and my note that...
If I am correctly interpreting this statement...
...and your photos of a cleaned-up box (with a now very legible marking...)
...to mean you were the guy who bought it, CONGRATS!
If you have a Hercules ratchet, I would really love to see if my wild conjecture is just wild conjecture or if that loop and bracket really will hold one!
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
That's too bad, but we can outsmart these circumstances if you're up for a little crude cardboard 3D modeling.
I have the measurement of the OAL from my old photos (see below). @LesserSon can measure the thickness of the head and the handle. You can make two simple tapering 2D cutouts, top side and flip side of the ratchet, tape them together with a thickness block in between up by the head and one back by the end of the handle, and cut an elongated hole through the end of the handle.
I'm anxious to know whether my hunch is foolish or feasible!
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Private Lugnutz
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JonahBrown
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It is a definite possibility but might make opening the top draw difficult. The thickness of the ratchet head would likely be very tight as well.
Lugz teased, then posted the Herc-rat acquisition Dec2019:
Later, we partnered on a purchase or something, which shifted those perceptions, but I think we arranged the details by text, because I don’t see a PM conversation about it here on GJ.
Then I found a second - undamaged - Herc-rat Feb2023:
We met up at Jake’s Flea Oct2021, and I acquired Lugz’s Herc-rat in a semi-rushed, last-minute trade, which Lugz apparently felt a bit uneven after the rat went to my side (and I felt right-sided the other elements of the trade, LOL).
Later, we partnered on a purchase or something, which shifted those perceptions, but I think we arranged the details by text, because I don’t see a PM conversation about it here on GJ.
Then I found a second - undamaged - Herc-rat Feb2023:
So here we are, me thinking I’ll drill out the rivets on that first rat someday, and see about replacing the cracked wheel, and Lugz still not convinced he got the better end of the deal.
Picked up a 3/4dr Hercules 4293 ratchet with plug today. Looks like LS date code (thus I HAD to buy it), so maybe December 1927.
^ I just went looking for my Hercules ratchet to visualize how it would sit on that drawer face (head through the loop on left, hanging hole on that ledge on the right!
I know it was part of a massive MASSIVE in-person trade, but please don't remind me what I got in return, because I'm feeling like I was temporarily insane and would rather imagine it being something really great!
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Congratulations - that’s an awesome piece!
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Ah, sorry, LS, that's not how I meant that joke!! It was just meant to be an emphatic expression of sellers' remorse - as in, 'What was I thinking that I let that go?!'
(Even if I had felt it lopsided, which I didn't, I would probably never say it at all, let alone in public! That was a great day and I remember exactly what I brought home, which included a Ronson auto kit wrench, a couple PLVMB adjustables and stubby, Vlchek Phillips drivers with Flying V logos, and Kraeuter K-Diamond wrenches.)Thanks for posting the dimensions.
Waiting for Jonah's cardboard modeling handiwork.
That's what I meant by "awkward" when I proposed the idea, but I can't think of what else would go there, and my money is still on myself!
(I have the salt shaker out for the crow I will have to eat if proven wrong.)
Private Lugnutz
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I found some cool ads I had not seen before searching for this merchandiser. Loving this snippet...
JonahBrown
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Like i said, it will be tight sliding the head in. There is a place in the top drawer for the drive plugs.Hercules ratchet dimensions:
Private Lugnutz
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I saw. Right back. Ratchets, sliding tees, and extensions in the other compartments.
JonahBrown
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Here are a few more pics. I didn’t try to get through all of the misc paint that had been spilled on this or completely remove all of the rust due to risk of losing the original labels/paint/art. The labeling can be mostly seen for 4 of the sockets in the bottom drawer. There is also a label on the outside corner of the box by its manufacturer which was neat (The American Art Works Inc. Coshocton, Ohio). The lower right corner of the socket drawer has a note
”Chrome Vanadium Handles, Ratchets, and Sockets are not turned from bar stock”. It is possible there is another word before Chrome, but that area was rusted.
”Chrome Vanadium Handles, Ratchets, and Sockets are not turned from bar stock”. It is possible there is another word before Chrome, but that area was rusted.
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Private Lugnutz
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That would help secure it. It just seems in synch with the Counter Clerk concept - the sockets stored in the box at the bottom, to have one handle out for show. I'm all ears for ideas on what else might have gone there if it doesn't fit.
Private Lugnutz
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You did a nice job preserving it.
That's who made their No. 65 board.
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JonahBrown
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I dont have a ratchet yet, so I can neither confirm or deny if that went there. I have a short extension and i think like 7 of the sockets so far. What is interesting is that the exterior metal was painted a chocolate color while the interior metal and wood was painted flat black. The back of the box was also flat black.
Private Lugnutz
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Okay, I guess that means you're ignoring my request to build a quick model out of cardboard! No worries, at the rate you're buying tools, I probably won't have to wait too long for the real thing test.
I don’t need a convincing demonstration. Your proposal makes sense, explains the protrusions. I think the hasp gets the rounded end of the ratchet, which doesn’t have to fit all the way through to the 2-1/2” widest point, and the sheetmetal hook passes through the long hole at the end of the handle, securing the ratchet from shifting sideways either direction. The only dimension that could be a problem is the front/back dimension of the hasp - is it near 3/4 to 13/16”? Yes it is!
I would argue that even if it failed to hold a ratchet today, that was their intended function when it was new. Things can and do fail to perform as intended, and the components have clearly been bent over the years.
I was hesitant to agree early on, because it is similar to the Utica counter display I have, (also Americn Art Works) which has graphics on the slanted “back,” and unadorned drawers clearly intended to face the service side of the counter.
This piece is opposite, with no visible adornment on the “back,” and the logo at top and message about the contents on the bottom drawer. A self-service display.
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However, armed with JB’s measurements, I rechecked the ratchet. If the drive plug is rotated square to, and left of, the hasp, 16-13/16” to the begining of the hole and 18-1/8” to the end of the hole, which looks right. Further, the head of the ratchet is slightly narrower at the point inside of the drive plug; the entire length of the handle tapers from the centerline of the driveplug (see my earlier post) to the end.
To me, this is the last nail in the coffin of doubt. I may have to fabricate something like the drawerfront, just to display the ratchet!
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JonahBrown
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It might have been displayed without a drive plug.
However, armed with JB’s measurements, I rechecked the ratchet. If the drive plug is rotated square to, and left of, the hasp, 16-13/16” to the begining of the hole and 18-1/8” to the end of the hole, which looks right. Further, the head of the ratchet is slightly narrower at the point inside of the drive plug; the entire length of the handle tapers from the centerline of the driveplug (see my earlier post) to the end.
To me, this is the last nail in the coffin of doubt. I may have to fabricate something like the drawerfront, just to display the ratchet!
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Eager to confirm my ratchet display theory about that peculiar hardware on the bottom drawer of @JonahBrown 's merchandiser, I spent another hour or so this morning trying to pry a period view of it out of the historical trade mag ether, to no avail.
I did manage to find some photos of one from a prior auction, though. While this specimen is in better condition, we should all consider ourselves fortunate that Jonah's still had the rectangular loop and appendage attached or we might never had known about it.
I did manage to find some photos of one from a prior auction, though. While this specimen is in better condition, we should all consider ourselves fortunate that Jonah's still had the rectangular loop and appendage attached or we might never had known about it.
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Private Lugnutz
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One more note on all this: it's odd there's no reference to "Hercules" on the cabinet. Bonney introduced their 3/4-inch square drive "Heavy-Duty" series with the "Hercules" name in the fall of 1928 with an advertising blitz, the terms were used interchangeably and always together, which would be another advantage of leaning a ratchet with the large "HERCULES" name on the handle front and center on that ~30* canted drawer face.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
By the way...
www.garagejournal.com
We all marveled at it and then we got even older with short term memory loss.
At the time, nobody remarked on the holes for the missing rectangular loop or the appendage on the right.
@JonahBrown answered my question in a PM. It was Todd - in this thread - from way back in 2017!
Spreading the Bonney affliction!
Todays Bonney tool found in a pawn shop going out of business a A22 11/16ths half inch socket. Along with a Snap-on 15/16ths deep well socket all at a cost of $2.00 for the items. Now I have 3 A22 sockets, oh well barter material.
www.garagejournal.com
We all marveled at it and then we got even older with short term memory loss.
At the time, nobody remarked on the holes for the missing rectangular loop or the appendage on the right.