Sump Pump Gurus Step Inside

D45 · Dec 16, 2016

Why would the back up pump be running?

I come home from work and the back up is beeping and the light indicates the back up pump is on

We did not lose power

Will it kick on, when and if the main pump dies?

Main pump tag?

D45 · Dec 16, 2016

My back up kit is a Simer A5500
Yes, the outlet has power

The Flotech looks to be a 2005 mode year? Old?

There are two SJE Pumpmaster tags, with two diff part numbers. Back ups?

slow · Dec 16, 2016

Does the main pump have a float switch, my guess is the main pump failed, or the float switch failed causing the emergency pump to run.

BleedingBlue · Dec 16, 2016

I would agree, your main pump died and likely needs replaced.

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Justind97 · Dec 16, 2016

We had issues with out pumps every few years when I was younger. We ended up changing them every 2 years or so just as preventative maintenance... Yours is 11 years old.
I would say it finally died.

Richard Cranium · Dec 16, 2016

Check and clean the float, a lot of crud can build up and cause them not to work.

gordo9742000 · Dec 16, 2016

Is there any water in the sump? Is it actually running or is it just the alarm going off?

ishiboo · Dec 16, 2016

Here's a photo of a car. Can you tell my why it doesn't run?

The normal failure mode for a sump pump is the switch fails. Some of them need to be replaced YEARLY. Water intrusion is often to blame for switch failures. On the pump-mounted switches, the rubber straps often fail, the floats fill with water and no longer float, and the switches themselves fail. Out of probably 12 sump pump failures on my properties, it has almost always been the switch. A common occurrence as well is the switch gets hung up as things rotate/shift/move.

One float switch is for the main pump, the other is for the backup. The backup float switch is higher than the main, so only if the main fails to discharge the water does the backup come on.

It's simple - it's a single pole single throw switch with a 120v pump attached. Disconnect the main pump from the switch receptacle, plug in a lamp, lift up the switch so it closes. Does it the lamp come on? If so, it's a problem with the pump. If not, it's a problem with the switch. (Assuming the float is not getting hung up on anything, is water logged and doesnt float, etc.)

ishiboo · Dec 16, 2016

gordo9742000 said:
Is there any water in the sump? Is it actually running or is it just the alarm going off?

Another good point. **** on the water alarm sensor can cause them to detect water when there isn't any.

D45 · Dec 16, 2016

I guess I need to pull the cover and do an inspection and look around

D45 · Dec 16, 2016

If I replace it, should I just get another 1/2hp unit?

More power necessary or no?

Flotech good or is there something better?

SJR033 · Dec 16, 2016

Are you sure you have a backup pump? That pit looks a little small to have 2 pumps in it. I would guess 1 float for the pump and 1 float for an alarm. We know you have an alarm, you said it was going off. That only leaves 1 more float for 1 pump.

D45 · Dec 16, 2016

No, I am not 100% sure there is a second pump..........only basing this off the flashing red light on the Simer A5500 back up panel, indicating the pump is/was running

I have the manual for the back up system, which shows a small back up pump getting plumbed into the pit...........but who knows, it might not be there

The tags on the pump switch lines indicate a 2010 production date

ratdoggy · Dec 16, 2016

slow said:
Does the main pump have a float switch, my guess is the main pump failed, or the float switch failed causing the emergency pump to run.

BleedingBlue said:
I would agree, your main pump died and likely needs replaced.

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Either of these two scenarios...
Or even the outlet GFCI kicked off
Check for juice first,then switch and finally the pump
That's why you have a back-up pump.

D45 · Dec 16, 2016

Just planning and looking ahead........What are better pumps?

I see that some pumps have a 1 year warranty, 5 year warranty, and found this one that is lifetime:

http://www.menards.com/main/plumbin...m?tid=1096669680342157460&bargainStoreId=3298

D45 · Dec 16, 2016

$137 but only a 1 year warranty
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-1-2-HP-Submersible-Sump-Pump-with-Tether-SBA050BC/205617277

$189 for a 3 year warranty
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-1-2-HP-Submersible-Sump-Pump-SP05002VD/204478339

$198 for a 3 year warranty
http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-1-2-HP-Cast-Iron-Submersible-Sump-Pump-500RS/206620815

gordo9742000 · Dec 16, 2016

Is it a battery backup? If it is the alarm will go off if battery voltage is low. Million different scenarios. Got to do some basic troubleshooting to get any help.

D45 · Dec 16, 2016

Took the cover off, and I do have two pumps with two switches

Power to the outlet is fine

Yes, it is battery backup........

The backup pump and pump switch does not have a plug, it is wired directly into the backup panel

The main pump and main switch have a plug..........I plugged the switch in, plugged in a lamp, and lifted the switch. The lamp turned on

I then plugged the main pump in and can definitely hear and feel it hum.......how loud should it be?

Everything was coated in sand, some thick and some areas barely any

I will go test the back up battery

D45 · Dec 16, 2016

The battery is nearly at 14.0 volts, so its fine

gordo9742000 · Dec 16, 2016

It hums when you lift the float switch or it bums with the float switch down?

D45 · Dec 16, 2016

gordo9742000 said:
It hums when you lift the float switch or it bums with the float switch down?

Hums only when I manually lift the float switch

I unplugged everything and plugged it back in

The "Pump Run" status is now off........

Now, I get a BEEP with a flashing light on "Battery Status" bar and the "Charge Mode" is also very randomly flashing

According to the manual a fast flash on the "Battery Status" means the volts are less than 8.2 volts (not according to my meter)

Should I remove the battery and charge it in the garage overnight?.........even though I know its charged

gordo9742000 · Dec 16, 2016

How old is the battery? I would try and load test the battery.

D45 · Dec 16, 2016

No clue, the entire setup was installed by the previous owner.......

I removed the battery and put it on the 2amp trickle charge overnight

D45 · Dec 16, 2016

I am just wondering what would causing the battery to drain and for the back up pump to be on........has to be the main large pump failed or the pump switch was not coming on and water was going to the higher (backup) pump switch, right?

The main large pump will kick on when I plug it in and lift the pump switch..........but how do I know its working 100%? Should it just hum or should it be loud and I should feel it kick on?

Maybe I should wait till the battery charges fully over night and tomorrow clean all the dirt and sand off the entire setup and put it all back in the pit

TheOtherChris · Dec 16, 2016

D45 said:
Now, I get a BEEP with a flashing light on "Battery Status" bar and the "Charge Mode" is also very randomly flashing

According to the manual a fast flash on the "Battery Status" means the volts are less than 8.2 volts (not according to my meter)

In my experience with servers in my office when the "Battery Status" lights red it is time to replace the battery. The SLA batteries in backups take a beating because they're constantly being charged and rarely get discharged.
A load test could confirm this. The issue is that while it may show 14+ volts no load, it may not provide that voltage under load.

D45 · Dec 17, 2016

Upon further inspection, I have the following battery:

Leoch DJM1275, which is a maintenance free Sealed Lead Acid (AGM)

According to the Simer manual, they suggest a 27M or 24M Deep Cycle Marine

The manual also says that a maintenance free sealed GEL battery is not recommended

gordo9742000 · Dec 17, 2016

Definitely load test it. If it fails replace it and then get into the troubleshooting why the pumps are running. If they are.

D45 · Dec 17, 2016

I took the main pump off the entire assembly and put it in the utility sink, while it was humming, no water was coming out

The motor got very warm, very fast........and I could not see the motor/impeller blades moving. I only assume its locked up

Orionrising · Dec 17, 2016

well try to spin the impeller then... with it disconnected

Firebrick43 · Dec 17, 2016

How much damage can be done if the basement floods? If the basement is finished get a whole set up. It's past its prime. Is several hundred worth causing 10-20k in damage?
IMHO a zoeller is the best. Get one without a switch and use a seperate inline switch. By a second one to keep as a spare. As previously mentioned mostly switch failures not the pump itself. A remote switch allows easy and quick repair with little to no disassembly.

D45 · Dec 17, 2016

Well I found out a few things.......

1) The battery was indeed NOT charged. It sat on the 2amp trickle charge literally all night and all day today. Finally around 5pm, it was full charged.

I believe the main pump died, the back up kicked on, and completely drained the back up battery

2) The old pump was shot. I installed the new one, and it instantly kicked on and pumped water

3) Bigger issue......I have a buried sump line that goes to the curb. No water is exiting at the curb, even though the exit hole is free and clear

I believe the buried line is frozen, which caused the original pump to kill itself, buy constantly trying to pump.

Now, I need to figure out how to thaw the buried line. I am thinking about cutting into the horizontal line in the basement and installing a "T" PVC fitting and then installing a garden hose fitting, running from the hot water heater and into the "T" fitting

PT Doc · Dec 17, 2016

What about running hot water from the curb side with a spray tip on the end of the hose?

redmondjp · Dec 17, 2016

Good sleuthing there OP! I have wondered about this issue for years myself (freezing discharge line) as I have a sump pump for my crawl space which discharges into a surface storm drain in my back yard (which then goes to the side street storm drain). Fortunately I live in an area where it doesn't freeze that hard.

I lived in the midwest for a couple of years and saw a lot of these discharge lines in the curbs. How do others deal with this freezing issue?

ambenz · Dec 17, 2016

My sump pump is tied into my city sewage line near where the pipe exits the house.
I never have any issues with frozen sump pump discharge pipes.
Maybe you can tie it into your sewage system line?
If your on septic, maybe a valve to bypass the curb drain in the winter?
Food for thought....

Firebrick43 · Dec 18, 2016

Tying into the sanitary sewer is pretty much illegal now. Many municipalities are disconnecting sump and floor drains from the sanitary sewers and fining you if you hook it up to it. It all has to do with the current push to stop all storm/runoff/overflow from getting into the rivers/streams, under the clean water act and enforced by the EPA

NUTTSGT · Dec 18, 2016

Try dumping a few 5 gallon buckets of hot water into your sump pit and see if that will thaw out the discharge blockage.

RPH · Dec 18, 2016

Throw some rock salt or de- icer down the drain. Add some water to get down to blockage. It will go to work and once it's open the sump water will flush the rest. It's plenty warm compared to freezing.

D45 · Dec 19, 2016

ambenz said:
Maybe you can tie it into your sewage system line?

Yeah, something like this :thumbup:

Problem solved with a valve and some new PVC directing the water to the street for spring/summer/fall months and then shutting off the valve, to direct the water elsewhere, where it can never freeze :bounce:

The new pump is VERY quiet, very

I will finish up the install by replacing the cover, securing the wires and re-connecting the back up kit

D45 · Jan 3, 2023

Digging this thread back up.

5 year warranty pump lasted, well, 6 years

Time to shop for a replacement

Didn't flood, but the main isn't working and the smaller backup pump is pumping water

Going to replace the inline check valve also, might also fab up a built in water hammer chamber

mike93lx · Jan 3, 2023

A couple houses ago, I had three sumps in the basement (in MA, so freezing on the discharge could be an issue). On the exit from the house, there was a fitting that had vents, called a "freeze relief", so that if the line was ever blocked downstream, it would come out there. Never had an issue.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/ELK-Freeze-Relief-Sump-Pump-Discharge-Line-Protection-Device/5001062899

Did you get a zoeller? They are usually high quality and long lasting

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