- Thread starter Ryan
- Start date
You’re circling the drain towards the pen addiction. I dabbled but backed off after about 8 pens. I only carry 3 with me at any given time (plus a Kuru Toga as my carry pencil). Like I said, I only dabbled. I have an entire refilling parts stock with inks, syringes, refillable cartridges, converters, and spare nibs. Like I said, I only dabbled.
OP
I snapped out of it just in time. I have four currently and I think that's one too many. I only need one for black ink, blue ink, and red ink... But I can't sell one of em cuz it was my dad's.
All that's neither here nor there though. I discovered very quickly that the Lamy 2000 is the only pen I really need. So good.
Jim_No_Garage
Well-known member
Thank you for this latest installment of Pen/Pencil/Journal/Notebook passion.
I'm enjoying all of this from the safe distance of "I'm too cheap to buy one of those!" .
Cheers
Jim
I'm enjoying all of this from the safe distance of "I'm too cheap to buy one of those!" .
Cheers
Jim
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Banjorear
Well-known member
For those looking for a fountain pen that won't cause you to call the FBI to help search for it if you lose it, I've been using Pilot Varsity's for a few years. About $10 for a 3 pack. Keep them in a few places. They work very well. Toss them when they run dry. Lasts a long time with quality ink loaded inside.
I also really like the Pilot Kerry mechanical pencils in .05mm.
I also really like the Pilot Kerry mechanical pencils in .05mm.
Amazon.com : Pilot Varsity Disposable Fountain Pens, Black Ink (90010x3) : Desk Staplers : Office Products
Amazon.com : Pilot Varsity Disposable Fountain Pens, Black Ink (90010x3) : Desk Staplers : Office Products
www.amazon.com
OP
Here's the thing though... I don't see a whole lot of advantage of a disposable fountain pen over a really good gel. Something like an energel might not write as fine, but it's just as smooth or smoother. Plus, it's less mess, less fuss, and even less consequence if you lose it.
To me, a fountain pen is good for those that have a special use case. Like, you need a really fine line or you need a specific amount of feedback, or you need something incredibly smooth or if ya just want to feel something a little special when writing...
All that said, I'm no fountain pen expert.... Not by a long shot.
Graham08
Well-known member
Nice. I wound up with a Plotter A5 after the last time this was discussed. As a lefty, I'm a big fan of the small rings.
Ryan, what is the silver Rotring pen/pencil in your photos?
Ryan, what is the silver Rotring pen/pencil in your photos?
OP
That's a Rotring 600 fountain pen from the early 90's. Extra-fine stainless nib. I keep it inked up with red... It's fantastic against a ruler and a decent writer as well.
Keep us updated on the Plotter. I think binders like this are so damned great for the shop. I'm sort of surprised more folks haven't discovered these. I know the initial financial hurdle is high, but man... It's so worth it to me.
Graham08
Well-known member
Agree that these binders are great. I had never heard of them until the last discussion here. I wound up getting mine from an Ebay seller in Japan to get one of the last orange ones available. I went with Plotter 2 mm grid paper...it is too small for my liking, but works OK. I should have gone for dot grid...and would prefer something heavier.
Thanks for the tip on the hole punch...I'll probably wind up with one of those, too.
Thanks for the tip on the hole punch...I'll probably wind up with one of those, too.
Attachments
OP
The orange is glorious—loud, unapologetic, and absolutely perfect. Hats off to you, sir.
Now, let me tell you… I went deep down the godforsaken rabbit hole of paper. Not a gentle exploration—no, this was a full-scale descent into madness. Page weights, hole placement, grid spacing—my brain’s a warzone of pulp and ink.
Plotter paper? Best fit, no doubt. Uses 5mm punch holes spaced just 3mm from the edge, which lets the pages flip cleanly, even when you’re hauling around a binder stuffed like a congressional expense report. But—and this is a big one—their grid and dot grid offerings are damn near worthless. The grid’s too tight, like trying to write on a crossword puzzle, and the dot grid is so faint it feels like you’re hallucinating it.
Now, their lined paper? That’s the secret sauce. It’s got these tiny ticks on the horizontal and vertical margins, so you can whip up your own grid whenever you please. Takes fountain pen ink like a seasoned pro. A bit thin, sure—but it doesn’t fold under pressure.
MeePlus comes swinging with a thicker variant of that lined paper, and it’s a joy. No bleeding, no ghosting, no complaints. I use it for note taking.
But the real prize—the heavy hitter—is Life Noble graph paper. It’s the heavyweight champ. Thicker, smoother, armed with a proper 5mm grid. Takes everything you throw at it—fountain pens, rollerballs, hell, probably a Sharpie if you’re feeling reckless. The holes are punched 5mm wide, 4mm in from the edge—not ideal, but not a dealbreaker either. Worst case, you trim a millimeter off the edge and keep moving.
Bottom line? Get the Life Noble. It’s the paper you never knew you needed, and once you’ve used it, nothing else feels right.
scooby074
Well-known member
The Varsity is a great cheap pen. Pilots are just a great brand of pen and ink overall. FYI you can easily refill the Varsity. Big plus to this is you can use inks not normally found in the Varsity from various brands.
FJ 432
Well-known member
In your previous thread on your quest to find a notebook I brought up the disadvantage of having to use their proprietary refills. My journey on this subject includes a brief stop at Filofax and settling on Levenger. I have always liked removeable/ returnable paper because I am a southpaw that writes with a curled hand (no way can I use a fountain pen).
But I have to say that your ability to make a paper punch for your system is intriguing. Can you share your solution? I do like the Meeplus notebook. Thanks in advance.
But I have to say that your ability to make a paper punch for your system is intriguing. Can you share your solution? I do like the Meeplus notebook. Thanks in advance.
OP
Of course. I’ll post it tomorrow from the lab.
Banjorear
Well-known member
I know, at times, threads on here can become downright ridiculous ******* matches about topics such Snap On vs. Harbor Freight, etc,, but this right here is the type of thread I absolutely love. Having a case of, what I believed may be, undiagnosed OCD or just a desire to get my **** organized, I'm constantly looking for a new way to do it.
I've tried the antiquated filing cabinet route, but it's just too bulky and time consuming. What ends up happening is I stop filing and just start stacking random shards of paper on top of the cabinet. After falling behind on my due diligence, it just feeds the anxiety of not being organized, so I just shitcan everything in order to clean slate it and start over.
Slowly, guys who are looking for a better or time-tested way to keep all of their ingenious ideas, hair brain schemes, or various successful and failed attempts on accomplishing a task handy and organized are posting their solutions.
Since writing things down is a very deliberate act, I find it helps you to remember and contemplate. Thanks to this thread, I'm now going down a rabbit hole of shop binders, paper types, hole punches and writing instruments that I didn't know I even needed, but I am now on a quest to acquire.
I've tried the antiquated filing cabinet route, but it's just too bulky and time consuming. What ends up happening is I stop filing and just start stacking random shards of paper on top of the cabinet. After falling behind on my due diligence, it just feeds the anxiety of not being organized, so I just shitcan everything in order to clean slate it and start over.
Slowly, guys who are looking for a better or time-tested way to keep all of their ingenious ideas, hair brain schemes, or various successful and failed attempts on accomplishing a task handy and organized are posting their solutions.
Since writing things down is a very deliberate act, I find it helps you to remember and contemplate. Thanks to this thread, I'm now going down a rabbit hole of shop binders, paper types, hole punches and writing instruments that I didn't know I even needed, but I am now on a quest to acquire.
OP
My obsessive compulsions don’t come from some hidden gift or artistic genius in the shop. No, it’s the opposite. They’re born of inadequacy. A survival mechanism. I’ve learned, painfully and over years soaked in sweat and failure, that I don’t have the raw talent to step into chaos and wrench brilliance from the void. No jazz. No improvisation. I have to move slow. Deliberate… and with a plan.
Thinking is mandatory. Every motion calculated. Every project begins the same: a clean shop, a notebook, and a goddamn plan. Without that? I’m adrift—dead in the water before the first bolt turns. The notebook for me isn’t optional. It’s oxygen.
Now, as for the endless ******* matches online about tools—don’t get me started. I’ve been hosting forums for over three decades, watching the same characters emerge from the digital mist. You want to find the guy who solves problems cerebrally? The one who’s methodical, careful, honed in his craft? Find the one who avoids stupid internet fights like the plague.
And the insecure ones—the ones who scream and claw and froth at the keyboard over brands, finishes, and handle grips? They’re telling you everything you need to know. They’re scared. Of what they don’t know. Of what they can’t do.
It really is that simple. Next time you see an argument here, think about that why you look at the user’s post history. His insecurities will scream at you.
Thinking is mandatory. Every motion calculated. Every project begins the same: a clean shop, a notebook, and a goddamn plan. Without that? I’m adrift—dead in the water before the first bolt turns. The notebook for me isn’t optional. It’s oxygen.
Now, as for the endless ******* matches online about tools—don’t get me started. I’ve been hosting forums for over three decades, watching the same characters emerge from the digital mist. You want to find the guy who solves problems cerebrally? The one who’s methodical, careful, honed in his craft? Find the one who avoids stupid internet fights like the plague.
And the insecure ones—the ones who scream and claw and froth at the keyboard over brands, finishes, and handle grips? They’re telling you everything you need to know. They’re scared. Of what they don’t know. Of what they can’t do.
It really is that simple. Next time you see an argument here, think about that why you look at the user’s post history. His insecurities will scream at you.
Banjorear
Well-known member
Wise words, Boss.
OP
OK... Hole punches. Here are the ideal numbers to aim for in my opinion:
So basically, a hole size of 4 to 5mm that is spaced 3mm from the edge of the paper.
Most standard hole punches punch a 6 to 8mm hole about 6mm from the edge of the paper. If you use these, you won't be able to put as much paper in your MeePlus as the paper tends to bind against itself as well as the back of the binder. Remember, the binder rings of the MeePlus are only 11mm in diameter.
Thankfully, this is not a hard problem to solve with the right hole punch. Here are the options I have explored:
1. The Carl All-In-One hole punch. I stole one from my daughter, but you can get one here. This one punches a 5.5mm hole about 3.5mm from the edge of the paper. Close enough. And paper punched with this thing works fine. I just thought it was kind of a pain in the *** to use.
2. The Officemate Amazon Special. You can get it here. This one punches a 5mm hole (close enough) about 5mm from the edge of the paper (too far). But, it's far quicker to use than option one. So, what I did was print a little spacer that looks like this:
This spacer slides into the jaws of the hole punch and acts like a fence. It pushes the edge of the paper out 2mm so that the hole to paper-edge measurement comes out right at 3mm. Even with the 5mm hole size, it works perfectly. I can stuff the MeePlus with paper and I have no binding up between pages or on the back of the binder.
Hope that makes sense.
So basically, a hole size of 4 to 5mm that is spaced 3mm from the edge of the paper.
Most standard hole punches punch a 6 to 8mm hole about 6mm from the edge of the paper. If you use these, you won't be able to put as much paper in your MeePlus as the paper tends to bind against itself as well as the back of the binder. Remember, the binder rings of the MeePlus are only 11mm in diameter.
Thankfully, this is not a hard problem to solve with the right hole punch. Here are the options I have explored:
1. The Carl All-In-One hole punch. I stole one from my daughter, but you can get one here. This one punches a 5.5mm hole about 3.5mm from the edge of the paper. Close enough. And paper punched with this thing works fine. I just thought it was kind of a pain in the *** to use.
2. The Officemate Amazon Special. You can get it here. This one punches a 5mm hole (close enough) about 5mm from the edge of the paper (too far). But, it's far quicker to use than option one. So, what I did was print a little spacer that looks like this:
This spacer slides into the jaws of the hole punch and acts like a fence. It pushes the edge of the paper out 2mm so that the hole to paper-edge measurement comes out right at 3mm. Even with the 5mm hole size, it works perfectly. I can stuff the MeePlus with paper and I have no binding up between pages or on the back of the binder.
Hope that makes sense.
I think the set of people keeping shop notebooks is pretty small, and the intersection with people willing and able to spend a bunch of money on it is smaller still. I make drawings and sketches and so on, but I do them on loose paper, and don't keep most of them. I worked in an environment where notebooks had to be signed and notarized every day, with lots of rules about them, but loose paper was considered ephemeral, so was easier for what I was doing. That turned me off of them, but I use a bound notebook to record what I've done for work.
Also, most of the younger people I know work digitally, so they're not really going to use a notebook, let alone an expensive one.
OP
100% agree on both accounts.
But this isn't their Journal... It's mine.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Just need to turn some custom size punches and make it perfectOK... Hole punches. Here are the ideal numbers to aim for in my opinion:
So basically, a hole size of 4 to 5mm that is spaced 3mm from the edge of the paper.
Most standard hole punches punch a 6 to 8mm hole about 6mm from the edge of the paper. If you use these, you won't be able to put as much paper in your MeePlus as the paper tends to bind against itself as well as the back of the binder. Remember, the binder rings of the MeePlus are only 11mm in diameter.
Thankfully, this is not a hard problem to solve with the right hole punch. Here are the options I have explored:
1. The Carl All-In-One hole punch. I stole one from my daughter, but you can get one here. This one punches a 5.5mm hole about 3.5mm from the edge of the paper. Close enough. And paper punched with this thing works fine. I just thought it was kind of a pain in the *** to use.
2. The Officemate Amazon Special. You can get it here. This one punches a 5mm hole (close enough) about 5mm from the edge of the paper (too far). But, it's far quicker to use than option one. So, what I did was print a little spacer that looks like this:
This spacer slides into the jaws of the hole punch and acts like a fence. It pushes the edge of the paper out 2mm so that the hole to paper-edge measurement comes out right at 3mm. Even with the 5mm hole size, it works perfectly. I can stuff the MeePlus with paper and I have no binding up between pages or on the back of the binder.
Hope that makes sense.
You have a lathe.... Right?
OP
I started down that path—full steam, eyes twitching—then stopped cold with the sudden realization of just how goddamn insane you’d have to be to go through all that effort just to punch a hole 1mm smaller than the one that’s already there. That’s not normal behavior. That’s padded-room territory.
And truth be told, I’m already hanging on by a thread over here… one bad decision away from screaming at clouds and hoarding paper clips like a lunatic.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Hey, every MM counts
Hell, you don't even have to make new cutters, just turn down the existing ones. You got this
OP
The rings themselves are 2.25mm in diameter. I was gonna go 2.5 to see if the paper snags at all. I even went so far as to start disassembling the hole punch to get the "dies" out. That's when I saw that the dies are actually in a plastic cylinder that locates each strike. So, I'd have to 3D print new cylinders to keep the holes accurately centered. That or either only turn the leading edge and that would minimize the amount of sheets I could stamp at once. Right about here is when I started to realize how bat **** crazy the whole operation was.
Banjorear
Well-known member
Great to know. Do you refill it by taking the end cap off? The nib doesn't screw off on the ones I have.
Banjorear
Well-known member
Once you start obsessing over making your rubber band ball larger and larger and treating your sour dough starter like a beloved child, then it's time to get some professional help. Until then, revel in your perfectionist tendencies.
scooby074
Well-known member
You actually pull the feed. First time it can be hard to remove it. This video should help
Banjorear
Well-known member
Thank you!
slodat
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I bought the last one I found on ebay. Can't wait to get it!
@Ryan - I'm not sure if my wallet is cursing you, or if I'm thanking you. I've ALWAYS loved stationary. Shop journaling in my phone just doesn't work for me. Down the rabbit hole I went. Ordered the Plotter A5, the grid paper you suggested, etc.
Thread was updated since I started typing. Thanks for the punch info. I can not believe someone isn't making an off the shelf over priced solution.
Graham08
Well-known member
Dammit, Ryan!
Seriously, though, thank you for the leads on a punch and corner rounder. I had just folded and stuffed the specs for a DRO in my binder. This is next level being able to punch it and store in the same place as the sketch.
Seriously, though, thank you for the leads on a punch and corner rounder. I had just folded and stuffed the specs for a DRO in my binder. This is next level being able to punch it and store in the same place as the sketch.
OP
Dammit, Ryan!
Seriously, though, thank you for the leads on a punch and corner rounder. I had just folded and stuffed the specs for a DRO in my binder. This is next level being able to punch it and store in the same place as the sketch.
Yeah… To me, this is the main reason to move to a binder. It just makes your life feel more put together.
slodat
ALLIANCE MEMBER
So… are there decent binders for archiving into as the day to day binder fills up/time moves along?
OP
I am using these for all of my paper inventory that's not currently in the binder:
I think they would also work pretty well for archive notes and plans that are moved out of the binder. Cheap and sized perfectly...
Edit: These would also work great for a guy that wanted to try this concept out before dropping $200 on an incredibly nice and well made MeePlus binder.
slodat
ALLIANCE MEMBER
These arrived today. It’s an Amazon 3 pack of binders. Definitely effective in giving the whole idea a go. I really like the Life Noble graph paper. Excellent recommendation!
OP
These arrived today. It’s an Amazon 3 pack of binders. Definitely effective in giving the whole idea a go. I really like the Life Noble graph paper. Excellent recommendation!
Those looks pretty decent. Gotta link?
slodat
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I think they are good for what they are. Heavy use would wear it out. Great to try out the size and for archiving. All my employees want one for use in the shop. Pretty stoked on that.
slodat
ALLIANCE MEMBER
@Ryan thank you for bringing this whole concept to my attention. I was out of town this week at a trade show. I took the Amazon binder with me to see how I used it. It worked out well. The cheap binder left me excited for the Plotter I had waiting for me when I got home. After I ordered the binder, I ordered several items from the Plotter USA website. It was all there waiting for me.
Their archive/refill storage book is interesting. Jury is still out on if I’d get more over time. I suspect I’ll go with the inexpensive binders I previously showed.
I think I will prefer rings, and this will be nice for keeping the refills in order. The Plotter refills, paper, all of it is really nice.
The refills are glue bound on the left edge. They work as a notebook on their own, and the pages are easily removed for use in the ring binder. It’s a nice approach, but I don’t see me using them as a separate notebook. The rings are the appeal for me. The significance of the small 11mm rings can’t be overstated.
Even the largest A5 size is really compact and portable.
I’m excited to see how this integrates into my days in the shop!
Their archive/refill storage book is interesting. Jury is still out on if I’d get more over time. I suspect I’ll go with the inexpensive binders I previously showed.
I think I will prefer rings, and this will be nice for keeping the refills in order. The Plotter refills, paper, all of it is really nice.
The refills are glue bound on the left edge. They work as a notebook on their own, and the pages are easily removed for use in the ring binder. It’s a nice approach, but I don’t see me using them as a separate notebook. The rings are the appeal for me. The significance of the small 11mm rings can’t be overstated.
Even the largest A5 size is really compact and portable.
I’m excited to see how this integrates into my days in the shop!
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OP
You are mind kind of guy man… Full tilt in…
Eric Commarato
Well-known member
Pilot Varsity is what I have been using as well, pretty bulletproof, wish they had a green ink.
Jim_No_Garage
Well-known member
I hit a few office supply stores this week while wandering around on "vacation" and found appropriate paper for my handwriting.
I'm trying to see if I can get it in A5 size. Cutting this paper in half would be a little too small.
Cheers
Jim
I'm trying to see if I can get it in A5 size. Cutting this paper in half would be a little too small.
Cheers
Jim
OP
I was recently gifted a Mee-Plus Mini along with a couple of card holders to run it as a wallet. The setup is wildly modular and surprisingly compact. Even as a slim wallet guy, I could carry it without much fuss—if it weren’t for the weight. That’s the only thing that keeps it from vanishing in your pocket.
Bottom line: If you carry a notebook every day, this is the best system I’ve ever used. No contest.
Full details here.
Bottom line: If you carry a notebook every day, this is the best system I’ve ever used. No contest.
Full details here.