- Thread starter Ryan
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Krash Kadillak
Well-known member
Curious if you've had any interaction with Travis Lathrop from Printfarmacademy.com and the Shop Nation YT channel? He's got quite a big print farm setup using Prusa and Bambu printers, and had collected a ton of data on them.
OP
I don't... I'm not really into large production 3d prints, farms, etc... Most of my 3D printing is for shop/office organization or templating.
Still totally pleased with my P1P, upgraded with anaftermarket 3D printed enclosure and now running the AMS 2 Pro (I sold my original AMS on Marketplace for $220 within an hour of listing it). Once the OTA firmware update comes later this month that brings filament drying to the X and P series printers running the AMS 2 Pro, that will be a very difficult combination to beat regardless of price point. The Bambu stuff is just so good.
OP
Good hardware, but man... that TOS/cloud thing bothers the hell out of me. I much prefer to keep all of my **** in house. The print quality of this Kobra is every bit as good as the quality coming out of my X1C and I have complete privacy control of my files. It might be weird, but I really care about that stuff. Having been in tech all my life, I've seen what can happen... IE Facebook, Instagram, etc...
CapriMikeC
Well-known member
I have a Kobra Max which has been good so far. But there are some g codes it doesn't seem to recognize so I've had to break mulicolor prints into separate files. It's the only one I have any experience with in this century.
OP
I don’t do a lot of multicolor printing. In fact, the only time I do is when reviewing printers… I did three with the S1 and didn’t have any issues. Thus far, the ACE has been great.
IndyGarage
Well-known member
I've had an Ender for about three years. The cheap $180 one. I've run probably 10 spools of filament through it - don't know how many hours that is - many.
I found the instructions for setup were terrible. You had to adjust the backlash of the rollers and the belt and the manual said nothing about it. You also had to level the bed carefully. I knew this from having run CNC machines long ago.
My first 30 seconds of printing was a disaster because I didn't get the filament loaded correctly. Once I fixed that, the thing has been mostly flawless. I've had a few haywire prints because of overhanging spaces, and I did have one spool of wire that dried out and wouldn't print anymore. But I can't imagine a machine more reliable than mine.
I would love to have multicolor printing and I've been looking at faster printers, mine's very slow - so thanks for the recommendation.
I ran a 3D printer at an aerospace firm when they first came out in the early 90's and cost $200-300K. The technology and ease of use available to individuals today is astounding.
I found the instructions for setup were terrible. You had to adjust the backlash of the rollers and the belt and the manual said nothing about it. You also had to level the bed carefully. I knew this from having run CNC machines long ago.
My first 30 seconds of printing was a disaster because I didn't get the filament loaded correctly. Once I fixed that, the thing has been mostly flawless. I've had a few haywire prints because of overhanging spaces, and I did have one spool of wire that dried out and wouldn't print anymore. But I can't imagine a machine more reliable than mine.
I would love to have multicolor printing and I've been looking at faster printers, mine's very slow - so thanks for the recommendation.
I ran a 3D printer at an aerospace firm when they first came out in the early 90's and cost $200-300K. The technology and ease of use available to individuals today is astounding.
You ran a printer at Allison? I recall seeing some 1:1 scale turbine parts at GE in the 90s. It was a 60* wedge and perhaps 18" long. The parts were likely a few $k. When I was working at a company in the early 2000s we had an SLA machine. The resin was something like $2500/gallon. I've been a consumer of 3D printed parts for over 20 years and I guess a producer using a Stratysis (sp?) FDM machine starting around 2008. I also remember being very unimpressed with the home hobby printers around 2014 or so and reading about the reprap movement a bit before that. Funny how far things have come in that time! I will say that with careful setup (and modern slicers, filament) even something like the Ender 3 can produce nice prints. Most of us would be singing the praises of an Ender 3 had we not been spoiled by the more recent offerings!
IndyGarage
Well-known member
I didn't actually run the printer. We had one in the experimental manufacturing shop and I was a manufacturing engineer there and our department did all of the CNC programming. I eventually ran most of the plant, so I knew everything that was being made at the time. I don't remember all the details but the materials were very expensive. We made experimental parts and many investment casting turbine blade positives for making investment casting molds. We had a small single crystal investment casting operation on-site.
I spent a bit of time working on the backlash of the Ender before I printed with it. Literally the first print off my $180 machine was the best 3d print I had seen up to that point in time. My son had one of the more primitive machines a few years prior and the prints weren't in the same league. So I can attest that almost anybody can make good stuff for very little money.
Cruzan80
Well-known member
The biggest thing that I feel like has turned a corner is the "science" of 3D printing. Yes, you can get good prints from an ender. You could get good prints from a Makerbot replicator or Cupcake, too. But the ease in which these "Just Work" is something that is hard to quantify for those who didn't have to be constantly tuning. Bambu's just work. Ryan's Kobra just works (once he found the setting). That is the difference, and it is night/day from the old models.
There are lots of people (like me) who don't have 3d printer, because they don't need another hobby, but who could certainly use some parts from time to time, the bambu printers were the first that look like an appliance, and not a kit of parts that could be used to make a tool from. We don't care about bed leveling, adjusting out backlash, setting parameters for filaments. We just want to push a button and get a thing printed. Hope anycubic keeps it up, so there's a less evil alternative to bambu.
OP
Prusa’s the known quantity—rock solid, time-tested, and backed by a company that actually seems to give a damn. Morally sound, even. That’s rare.
The downsides? Price, for one. And—ironically—software integration. I say ironic because their open-source slicer is the very foundation OrcaSlicer was built on, yet it still lags behind in some ways.
Now, my Bambu? That’s been a ride. AMS problems, hot end issues, and tech support so abysmal it could be studied as a case in consumer frustration. One of the worst customer service experiences I’ve ever had, hands down. I eventually got it all sorted and it’s been fine since—but holy hell, what a journey. That said, I think my issues were the exception. Most folks seem to have smooth sailing.
The Kobra S1 had a rocky start too, but that was mostly on me—user error, setup oversights, the usual rookie stumbles. I haven’t had to reach out to support yet, but I’m almost tempted to fake an issue just to see how they handle it. As of now, I’m pushing 120 hours of print time in under two weeks with zero failures since the initial shakeout.
At the price point? It’s getting harder and harder to argue against the Kobra. It might just be the best bang-for-the-buck machine out there right now.
niget2002
Well-known member
I'm having the same issue. Their H2D looks really nice and is very tempting, but I just don't like the cloud part.
OP
Personal decision. Probably Crazy. But yeah... I've just seem things like that go south too many times in the tech industry.
Are the BL systems locked down to the point that you can't get essential software without going to their website, or worse, having to log in? These printers are all very new. A 10 year old printer is from the stone age while it's likely many of us use computers almost that age. How many tools do we have that are 10, 20 years old or even older? I would like to think that, like an old Bridgeport, my printer could still work a decade from now. I would definitely want that if I spent $1500 on it! The thought that I might have a fully functional printer but no software on which to run it doesn't sit well with me.
OP
In 15 years, these 3D printers will be little more than expensive shelf art—dead tech with no support, no parts, and no relevance. Most won’t even make it five years before the updates dry up and the companies either follow suit or move forward.
This isn’t a crescent wrench we’re talking about. It’s built for now. Flash-in-the-pan technology, constantly leapfrogging itself. Today’s marvel is tomorrow’s e-waste. So unless you’ve got a real, immediate use or a burning curiosity for the chaos, skip it. Save your money. Technology is not for you.
Honestly, the idea that this kind of tech has long-term staying power—especially at the consumer level—is laughable. I mean, some of these printers might be perfectly useable 10 years from now, but the tech is moving so quickly, I can't imagine there will be willing users.
gahrajmahal
Well-known member
Our local library has a “makers space” with a 3d printer. It is free to use, just pay for the consumables. There is even a person (volunteer?) who will walk you through your project. I’ve been considering scheduling some time to learn to make something, but I don’t have any particular project in mind. Do any of you have a suggestion of something cool to make? I have a grand daughter who is considering an engineering career (at 10 yrs. Old) and this seems like it would be interesting.
I talked with a guy who ran a similar space at an art school a few years ago. One of the things he said he helped people a whole lot with were funnels, so much so he'd redone their "how to 3d print your first project" tutorial into "how to 3d print your first funnel", with a parametrized model that made it easy to change the threads or the sizes. I doubt your granddauhhter needs a custom funnel, though. My daughter is about the same age, she did some 3d printing for a school thing, and liked some kinetic toy things they made -- they had interconnecting pieces that didn't touch, but which constrained the pieces from not falling apart. there was a lizard with a fully articulated spine, some rings, and a few other things. The lizard was by far the coolest. (the 3d printing of the stuff that was for the project was described as "meh", which is a reason i didn't buy one.)
Cruzan80
Well-known member
For Bambu: No, not really. The firmware and software versions have to match, but you can side load files via SD card. Theoretically, you could unbox, install the slicer version that matches, and never let it "phone home". You do lose some the added functionality, but nothing essential.
What if BL locks down the slicer? Are their Orca profiles? I do get that this is a stretch so I'm really asking as a devil's advocate. I personally would be happy to use a BL machine were it cheaper. As this is mostly a toy I can't justify the cost vs something like my 5M.
aquinob
Well-known member
I'm only a few months in to 3d printing. I got a BL P1S mostly due to seeing quite a few reviews that pretty much said it works like an appliance. Set it up and go. And I was printing that same night it came. I didnt get it with any specific idea of what I could or would want to print, I figured that will come. As it turns out, I found quite a bit of things to print, mostly stuff related to hobbies.
Like lots of people here, I'm retired and like to tinker. Mostly woodworking, but also fixing old machines and working in the garage. I have a CNC and started by printing stuff I could use with it. Dust collection for the router, hold downs for the work, stuff like that. I got another bandsaw and needed a custom DC fitting for it. My brother designed one in Tinkercad for me and I printed out. If you cant design parts, probably somebody else has already made something similar or usable that you can download for free and print for yourself.
I'm into bikes, I've printed out parts that let me mount small GPS units on the bike. I needed to modify my Stepdaughters bike with hydraulic brakes so that it would work with a new Ebike controller. I found some parts on the web (Thingiverse) that let me mount the magnets for switches. Even my wife who's big thing is Knitting has had me print stuff we found online like stitch markers and forms for knitted socks.
Point is that it didn't take long before I found many uses for parts that I could make and I had no idea it would be this useful. I would encourage folks who are hands on but have never considered one to take a leap of faith and get one. Doesnt have to be that expensive either. Even the lower priced Bambu printers have great reviews and if you dont want Bambu, there are other brands that are doing great as well as evidenced by Ryans revew.
Like lots of people here, I'm retired and like to tinker. Mostly woodworking, but also fixing old machines and working in the garage. I have a CNC and started by printing stuff I could use with it. Dust collection for the router, hold downs for the work, stuff like that. I got another bandsaw and needed a custom DC fitting for it. My brother designed one in Tinkercad for me and I printed out. If you cant design parts, probably somebody else has already made something similar or usable that you can download for free and print for yourself.
I'm into bikes, I've printed out parts that let me mount small GPS units on the bike. I needed to modify my Stepdaughters bike with hydraulic brakes so that it would work with a new Ebike controller. I found some parts on the web (Thingiverse) that let me mount the magnets for switches. Even my wife who's big thing is Knitting has had me print stuff we found online like stitch markers and forms for knitted socks.
Point is that it didn't take long before I found many uses for parts that I could make and I had no idea it would be this useful. I would encourage folks who are hands on but have never considered one to take a leap of faith and get one. Doesnt have to be that expensive either. Even the lower priced Bambu printers have great reviews and if you dont want Bambu, there are other brands that are doing great as well as evidenced by Ryans revew.
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Cruzan80
Well-known member
How would they lock down something that doesn't require Internet access to work? I download Bambu Slicer .exe file, and can run it on a computer w/o internet, and it will work fine. There is also Orcaslicer, that still works (not absolutely sure if it plays nice with the H2D or the latest firmware, haven't tried it. Not saying it will NOT, just not sure.)
Overall, it would probably be a "Doesn't work with Win 15" issue that all tech enevtually seems to have if you were to get upset and completely "air-gap" the slicer/printer. And that still wouldn't stop you running a VM of an old Win version...
Once you have the slicer and the system I presume they can't. However, if you lose the original software, get a new computer etc, then you need to download the software from the mfr. Or, as you put it, if I hang onto the old hardware but now my Win 2035 computer can't run BL slicer 2025 do I have options? Again, I'm fairly deep into the weeds with this question.
I like the idea of using Orca or Cura simply because I feel confident that those programs will live on. Profiles are available for a lot of printers. Perhaps BL profiles also exist which would address my in the weeds question.
Have a look at makers muse on YouTube. That's what really made me interested in 3D printing. The stuff he does is interesting even to people who don't have a 3D printer.
This is a couple of his videos:
One of the towns near me also has a library 3D printer. I was just thinking about, how does that work given prints can take a long time. Even a quick print is typically 20-30min of actual print time. Even with a fast printer most things I would print are going to take a few hours. Does the library let you come back the next day and pick up your print on the honor system? Do they remove it or do you have to remove it? I think it's a great idea but I wonder how well it works in practice.
OP
My wife sits on the board of our local library. They’ve got a stable of Prusa MK4s—four of them—plus a few crusty old MK3s hanging on for dear life. Each one’s housed in a lockable enclosure. The system is simple: start your print, spin the combo, lock it up. You’ve got two hours to grab your print before staff unlocks it and moves it aside with their master keys.
That’s the theory, anyway. In practice, no one ever locks the damn things. And surprisingly, theft isn’t much of an issue. People seem to respect the system—even when they don’t follow it to the letter.
Back when my kids were in grade school, the classrooms were loaded with those ancient Maker Space printers—the kind that sounded like they were dying mid-print. They were awful. Constant failures, warped parts, plastic spaghetti everywhere. But the kids didn’t care. They were mesmerized. My oldest, thanks to those trash bins with motors, can now 3D model circles around me.
Last year, we busted our asses to secure a grant—one that gave every school in our district four shiny new Prusa MK4s. The idea? Get kids thinking like makers. Engineers. Builders. Turn the stuff in their heads into something they can hold. And it worked. I watched it happen in real time with my own kids. For my money, that’s the real magic of 3D printing—not gadgets, not gimmicks. Just raw potential made physical.
But of course, the grant was pulled not long ago and the schools aren't getting the printers.
CapriMikeC
Well-known member
As someone who spends my career in the subtractive manufacturing world, I am always in the default pattern of how do I machine something to get the shapes I want. Sometimes, I have to make multiple components and attach them to each other with fasteners or welding.
Visualizing in my head a component with "impossible" features is often my biggest obstacle. Showing kids early the different methods should help them avoid getting stuck in the limited thinking so many of us fall into.
Visualizing in my head a component with "impossible" features is often my biggest obstacle. Showing kids early the different methods should help them avoid getting stuck in the limited thinking so many of us fall into.
I like the idea of getting these things into the classroom. When I was teaching at a university (about 15 years ago) the engineering students would "abuse" the idea of a 3D print (no, you shouldn't print your axle with the printer, that's $500 of filament in your design). The great thing is as the prices drop they can learn on the real hardware and start to develop institutional knowledge on how to best use the printers.
The modeling part is a big deal. I'm trying to get my oldest son into modeling. He is interested but hasn't quite had the must do project. He can operate the printer itself.
The modeling part is a big deal. I'm trying to get my oldest son into modeling. He is interested but hasn't quite had the must do project. He can operate the printer itself.
My dad learned to model with that same thinking. He had done manual machining. His first 3D modeling was for machined parts so he modeled the same way by started with a big block of 1's and 0's and removed the unwanted bits. I learned to design modeled parts so I've always thought in terms of taking a basic shape and adding or subtracting from it. Only later did I think about how it would be made.
I just got into 3d printing(less then two months ago) and have been making tools bought a used A1 mini. I am really kind of maxed on the abilities of studio got any helpful advice on learning fusion 360 or something like that?
3d printed this functional vise with it.
Attachments
OP
If you have an iPad, give Shapr 3D a try. It's not quite as powerful as Fusion, but it's much more intuitive to me.
I started with Shapr 3D and it sort of helped me understand Fusion a bit better. I use both now... but I'm still not a great modeler... I basically just try **** until it works.
I think Solidworks 3D experience for makers is still back to $48/year. It has been $24 a few times this year. I have years of SW experience so it's an obvious choice for me. That said, I think it's a very solid program and not that hard to learn the basics. The desktop maker version (do not pick the web based version!) is nice in that is basically the same as normal full price SW. It does have some cloud save options that I ignore. A really nice feature it's that it works like a floating license so you can install it on multiple computers (but only run on one at a time). However, the crappy part is you start the program via a log in process vs a typical click the icon. For me the multi computer aspect makes that OK to put up with.
Fusion 360 looks promising but I've yet to try it since I'm happy with SW.
I will take a look and check it out. I also think there’s a strong possibility that my laptop is just too old. It’s about 10 years old to run a lot of the software.
Old can be an issue but it also depends on how good it was 10 years ago. I'm about to retire the laptop I'm using now. It was new in Jan 2014 but it can run current SW. It was a mid line CAD machine (16gb of ram, i7 CPU etc) so back in the day it was relatively powerful. As it's mostly used for internet and smaller CAD models it has little issue keeping up with the demands placed on it. While SW 2025 takes more computer than SW 2014 did, the model I'm trying to spin makes a bigger difference. Almost any model I'm going to design for printing isn't too complex for this old system. I will note, it's getting retired because it won't support Win 11, not because it otherwise *needs* to be replaced.
Mine won’t support 11 as well it was fairly high quality of its day. I mean this vise I built has well over 200 parts and his functional as a small Wilton bullet vice reproduction. I’m just trying to figure out since I am somewhat antiquated myself when it comes to knowing what the most current technology is required to run these newer software‘s.
My general suggestion is look at the Dell refurbished workstation laptops. I think the 7000 series are the best. Something like a 7550 or 7560 is a tank of a 15" laptop. Those are some of the best build computers Dell offers. Very solid and obviously expensive when new. The 7560 is about 3 years old and if you hunt around for Dell coupons/sale you can probably get a decent one for around $600 or less.
The Precision line numbering basically works like this:
The first digit tells you what series the system is. 3000 are the budget systems. Decent CPU and GPU, so-so screens. The GPUs will be CAD certified vs gaming GPUs. The 5000 series are the slim, fancy models. These will generally have the nicest screens (high resolution/4K, high color quality, touch screen - note that 2K more conventional screens are also available in this line). As for CPU/GPU, I think they are similar to the 3000 series. The very thin/slim chassis doesn't allow for much cooling. These are basically Dell XPS machines with slight changes to make them CAD machines. My soon to be retired system is an old version of this line and so is it's replacement. I'm a sucker for the 4k touch screens. The drawback to this line is they typically have limited ports (some are USB-C only) and no number pad. They are small for the screen size. The 7000 series is the "kitchen sink" model. These were the most powerful mobile CAD machines Dell offered. They have lots of ports as well as space for 2-3 internal hard drives, lots of memory etc. If you don't care about moving the thing around, and if you are OK with generally good but not Macbook quality screens these are solid machines (several in my family).
OK, the next number is screen size. So x5xx is a 15" screen (typically 15.6 either 16:9 or 16:10 aspec ration). Dell does have some 14" and 17" CAD machines but they don't seem to show up on the refurb site much. I think most businesses see 15"-16" screens as the sweet spot. Since the refurb machines are about 3 years old I would expect some 16" models to show up soon. My work computer is a 16", 16:10 Thinkpad. I do like the screen size. Same width as a typical 15.6" screen but a bit more vertical. If you wait a few months you may see some x6xx models.
The last two digets tell you which generation Intel chips are inside. xx40 means 9th gen i5, i7, i9 or Xeon CPUs. xx50 is 10th gen, xx60 is 11th gen. The performance difference between the 9th and 10th gen didn't seem that big but the 11th gen was a bigger jump and might be worth the cost. I think 9th gen is about the oldest thing they have on the site anymore. All are fine with Windows 11.
Note that lower end versions of any of these computers might come just with Intel integraed graphics. You probably want the Nvidia graphics upgrade for CAD work. In the past it made a big difference.
So that was a lot of unrequested computer advice. If you just want a bargin priced CAD machine, I would look at something like this:
https://www.dellrefurbished.com/ite...1/1.html?child=dell-precision-3551-000136&p=1 for $440. However, I would also wait and see if some discount coupon comes up and see if you could get free shipping and perhaps $100 off that price.
Thanks man my brother found me one on Amazon not dell but had a lot of options https://a.co/d/dC5QTxZ has a $100 coupon and has 32gb ram and 1.5t storage he said that would work. I’ll also look into the refurbished ones as well.
Certainly not a bad price. I'm always concerned about the integrated Intel GPUs. They certainly can work and my tablet computer runs current SW with such a GPU. But, years of bias and remembering the old, crappy, integrated GPUs has me knee jerking away from systems that don't have a dedicated GPU. I suspect the performance improvement is at least 1% but likely less than 100000%.
Edit: nope, I don't like that computer. The Celeron N4500 is ****.
Too put the performance in perspective, my Dell M3800, a computer released almost 11 years ago, is significantly faster
I also think it's misleading to say it comes with 1.5T of storage when it has only 1T of hd space and the other 0.5T is a thumb drive. That's like saying my car has 600 miles of range thanks to the pair of 5gal gas cans in the trunk.
Anyway, that is a very slow computer. It's probably has good battery life but it would be a bad choice for CAD as well as 3D model slicing.
For comparison, the 3 year old, every level Dell CAD system's CPU is about 2-6x faster depending on the job.
The GPU is also much more powerful. I wouldn't fault anyone for saying they would rather buy new vs used or avoid a specific brand due to personal history (Dell has been good to me so I keep going back). Lenovo is generally good but this computer is just too restricted for modeling. Even if it "can" for similar money you can get someone much better for the job.
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