- Thread starter Ryan
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cvairwerks
Well-known member
Hey Ryan: you up for a little experimenting with the laser for fabrication preparation?
OP
What did ya have in mind?
cvairwerks
Well-known member
Was wondering if the laser would etch layout lines in a piece of metal that has had Dykem sprayed or painted on. If it does, without issue and much work, it would sure make some of my work easier in the shop.
OP
I don't see why it wouldn't... I'll see if I have any Dykem in the shop and give it a shot.
cvairwerks
Well-known member
Cool...Thanks Ryan. If it works, it would really simply things for me. I could load a file to the laser and let it mark out all the parts on a particular thickness of material and save hours on layout work. I've got a few parts for a project that would take me about 4 hours of intense work to do the hand layouts if I have to go that route.
ptt49er
Well-known member
The laser should just etch the lines on the material, no need for dycam.
OP
You would need a fiber laser to mark steel, aluminum, etc… This is a CO2 laser.
cvairwerks
Well-known member
PTT49er: The layout work is for cut lines, fold lines, holes, alignment marks and machining reference. Anything beyond cut, machine and drill marking is not wanted as permanent. A proper etch would be removing material at depths close to engineering limits for a good part on some material thicknesses. Any defect deeper than 10% of the material thickness is an automatic reject for the part.
Bennylava
Well-known member
Oh some of them are far from cute. Some of the big ones would carve up 3/8 steel plate like butter
I'd love to have access to a CO2 laser again. It's great for clear acrylic. At my old lab we had a 150W Kern with a steel cutting tip and standard material cutting tip. Using O2 the kerf on some sheet steel cuts was around 0.010". I suspect that machine without O2 would still mark steel but we were warned against using ours with AL. Apparently it can melt then act like a mirror and reflect the laser energy back into the optics. I'm sure it could mark something like layout paints with low power. It could also be done with contact paper or through that cling plastic that is sometimes on aluminum sheet.
For a long time I rejected the notion of a 3D printer in favor of getting a laser cutter. They are great machines and If love to have one of I had the shop space.
For a long time I rejected the notion of a 3D printer in favor of getting a laser cutter. They are great machines and If love to have one of I had the shop space.
Innovate1
Well-known member
It has nothing to do with size. It has to do with the type of laser and power level. We have one at work that cuts out steel parts that has a bed at least 4' x 4' - not production but for prototypes that eventually may go into high volume production using other production methods. Very cool but not the machine mentioned here.
niget2002
Well-known member
There's always the cheaper diode lasers. They won't cut everything and they run a bit slower, but I still find mine very useful.
I was disappointed to learn they don't cut clear acrylic. However, they are quite affordable for someone who wants it just for tinkering around the house - not that they should be used in the house without proper ventilation.
OP
No Dykem in the shop, but I will try to get some when I have a chance.
One thing I have done is hit both spray painted aluminum and steel. It cleanly removes the paint... Text is very clean and legible and lines can be quite thin...
Old Man Roger
Well-known member
Much like a laser welder, I have zero use for this, but I want it soooooooooooooooo bad.lol
OP
I was in the same boat really... Hell, I didn't even really want one. But now that I have it and understand its capabilities, I have found so many uses. Super fun tool...
OP
I was asked about leather… I cut 10oz and it’s as clean as a blade. Really impressive, but I haven’t had time to do much else.
I did, however, engrave a little wallet. Looks very similar to a heat stamp.
I did, however, engrave a little wallet. Looks very similar to a heat stamp.
slowtwitch73
Well-known member
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I bet sharpie would be a decent stand in
Small world! I just learned how to use a CO2 cutter this afternoon to build this basic enclosure after failing miserably at trying to make one by hand out of Baltic birch ply with a circular saw and trim router. This was very fast, very painless, and opens up a lot of possibilities for this specific kind of work. My only gripe is the barrier to entry for what is essentially a one trick pony (cutting shapes out of flat things). I cannot justify several thousand dollars for it. Makes much more sense to rent time to use one locally or to use Send Cut Send.
OP
I’m working on it, but it looks grim… I’m not an influencer of any kind, so it’s hard for them to justify I think.
slodat
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I bought a 150 watt 36” x 55” work envelope co2 tube laser eight years ago. I is used for something almost every day in the shop. The most common thing it’s used for is layout templates in 1/8” mdf.
The second most used thing is cutting foam for custom shipping cases for my product line and custom case foam for clients.
I’ve also used it for custom perforations on leather, cutting chipboard, custom packaging, all manner of shop stuff.. It takes a while to integrate into your thought processes and workflow.
In general I don’t do manual layout anymore. I make templates for any layout.
I highly recommend getting some 1/8” mdf. It’s cheap, and makes amazing templates. I cut it into thirds - about 32” x 48” for my machine. I use a spring center punch to mark hole locations.
Fiber galvanometer lasers are great for marking metals. I use them for makers mark on my tooling.
Larger fiber lasers are great for cutting metals. I just brought a 2kw online. Complete game changer compared to the plasma I had used the last couple of years.
Happy to help with laser stuff.
The second most used thing is cutting foam for custom shipping cases for my product line and custom case foam for clients.
I’ve also used it for custom perforations on leather, cutting chipboard, custom packaging, all manner of shop stuff.. It takes a while to integrate into your thought processes and workflow.
In general I don’t do manual layout anymore. I make templates for any layout.
I highly recommend getting some 1/8” mdf. It’s cheap, and makes amazing templates. I cut it into thirds - about 32” x 48” for my machine. I use a spring center punch to mark hole locations.
Fiber galvanometer lasers are great for marking metals. I use them for makers mark on my tooling.
Larger fiber lasers are great for cutting metals. I just brought a 2kw online. Complete game changer compared to the plasma I had used the last couple of years.
Happy to help with laser stuff.
OP
I bought a 150 watt 36” x 55” work envelope co2 tube laser eight years ago. I is used for something almost every day in the shop. The most common thing it’s used for is layout templates in 1/8” mdf.
The second most used thing is cutting foam for custom shipping cases for my product line and custom case foam for clients.
I’ve also used it for custom perforations on leather, cutting chipboard, custom packaging, all manner of shop stuff.. It takes a while to integrate into your thought processes and workflow.
In general I don’t do manual layout anymore. I make templates for any layout.
I highly recommend getting some 1/8” mdf. It’s cheap, and makes amazing templates. I cut it into thirds - about 32” x 48” for my machine. I use a spring center punch to mark hole locations.
Fiber galvanometer lasers are great for marking metals. I use them for makers mark on my tooling.
Larger fiber lasers are great for cutting metals. I just brought a 2kw online. Complete game changer compared to the plasma I had used the last couple of years.
Happy to help with laser stuff.
Holy ****. Foam? I never thought of that. You might have just ruined me.
OP
I bought a 150 watt 36” x 55” work envelope co2 tube laser eight years ago. I is used for something almost every day in the shop. The most common thing it’s used for is layout templates in 1/8” mdf.
The second most used thing is cutting foam for custom shipping cases for my product line and custom case foam for clients.
I’ve also used it for custom perforations on leather, cutting chipboard, custom packaging, all manner of shop stuff.. It takes a while to integrate into your thought processes and workflow.
In general I don’t do manual layout anymore. I make templates for any layout.
I highly recommend getting some 1/8” mdf. It’s cheap, and makes amazing templates. I cut it into thirds - about 32” x 48” for my machine. I use a spring center punch to mark hole locations.
Fiber galvanometer lasers are great for marking metals. I use them for makers mark on my tooling.
Larger fiber lasers are great for cutting metals. I just brought a 2kw online. Complete game changer compared to the plasma I had used the last couple of years.
Happy to help with laser stuff.
I just watched the video... What would a decent fiber machine that can cut 14 gauge steel run for? Ballpark. I guess bed size would be important as well... I'd think something like 3' by 2' minimum.
I can't help but think about how much easier that would make my life. No physical layouts, no cutting wheels, no dust, no grime.... Man...
ptt49er
Well-known member
I can see a lot of photo tracing and tool box storage in your future.
slodat
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I’ve cut about five pallets 4’ x 4’ x 6’ tall of foam. It works really well. I will say I have a LOT of time dialing in the process to get the results I wanted. It works great.
There’s a lot to a metal cutting fiber laser. First is power. The machine I bought is single phase. About 60a for the control and source. That’s definitely oversized, but that’s what the manufacturer called out for the supply circuit. Next is air/gas. They cut with three options in order of how “cold” they are:
Nitrogen- this is expensive because it’s high pressure. 1.6 MPa in my case. And, you’ll use a lot of it The cut quality is insane. N2 is also required for some materials. Namely stainless steels. I have one bottle and we set the machine up to be able to run on N2 should the need arise.
Compressed air- this is the most economical long term. I rarely work with plate. Almost all of my work is 10ga carbon steel or thinner. I also only work in carbon steel. For my source (2kw), compressed air leaves very little burr. So, it’s perfect for my use case. If you can get the results you want with compressed air, I feel like that’s the way to go. The compressor is a purpose built screw compressor with all the trimmings for use with a laser. It’s 1.5MPa.. about 230 psi. It is only used for the laser. The call out is for a 100a single phase circuit. These cost around $10k for the units coming out of China. This price is prior to recent tariff stuff.
Oxygen- oxygen is an accelerant. The usage is very low, because it’s low pressure. The cut quality is beautiful. The cut speed is significantly slower all things considered. The oxygen leaves an oxide layer on the edge that needs to be removed prior to powder coating. Oxygen allows you to cut much thicker plate. I can cut 1/2” plate with good edge quality and significantly better hole quality compared to air plasma. I only use oxygen for plate - thicker than 10ga.
To be clear the edge and hole quality are essentially perfect. This laser is a minimum of 2x as fast as air plasma on the same parts and materials. I’m very happy to have the machine. This machine was $62k delivered with on-site setup and the compressor.
Laser cutting, and cutting metal in general, is a messy process. I have a downdraft blower as well as a 30” exhaust fan to keep the air moving. We don’t cut for 8 hours continuously a shift. I’m not seeing problems with smoke, fumes, or dust at this point. The next level of machine is enclosed, with a 25+ hp laser dust collector. In time this machine will be replaced with something like that. The price tag is in the $200k range pre-tariff stuff.
There are a lot of importers. I’m happy with the guy I went with. I know there are 4x4 and similar designs out there that would be great in a small shop. My honest advice though is to use a laser jobs shop. When something is outside of my capability/capacity I use Cort at Laser Bros and can’t recommend them enough! They are great to work with. I’m a small business and I like supporting him.
Again, happy to answer questions and share my experience. I had never seen any of this equipment or operated it prior to purchase. There’s not a lot of info out there.
OP
Man... $62k is a ton of coin, but I can totally see the value in it if you do a ton of sheet metal and/or plate cutting for a living. I can't imagine having that kind of power for my stupid little projects. So much fun...
RonnieC
Well-known member
Thanks for the post- I’ve been looking at the xTool f1 for marking woodworking with my brand name. At the Florida Woodworking Symposium I saw Phil Irons had his pieces engraved with laser and they were just perfect. So much better than marking by hand or using a heated branding iron.
OP
I engraved the top of the S/MC. I wanted it to be subtle, so I did low power at a pretty fast speed. Ended up about 1/32” deep.
slodat
ALLIANCE MEMBER
A hot trick is to do a 1-2mm border around that text (offset in your drawing software) and do it with more power/less speed to get a dark accent. If that's your thing.I engraved the top of the S/MC. I wanted it to be subtle, so I did low power at a pretty fast speed. Ended up about 1/32” deep.
OP
Yep... I've done some of that. I guess you can also soak the wood in baking soda, let it dry, then engrave... to get a black engraving...
RonnieC
Well-known member
For my uses I like that it can engrave fine script writing in amazing resolution. I don’t have any plans of doing cutting or engraving in other materials so I think the F1 might work fine for me. I would agree with the analogy of xTool being like Apple.
OP
So… my laser came with a rotary attachment, but I’ve been too chicken to touch it. Looked overly complicated—too many moving parts, too much potential for frustration, too much everything... But today, I finally had a reason to give it a shot. The coil on my hot rod was due for a little makeover, and I figured I’d get a little cute with it.
To my surprise, the rotary was stupid simple to use. You just drop it in the machine, set your part on it, and let the software handle the rest. No measuring, no calculating circumference, no ritual sacrifices—just click and go. Kind of blew my mind.
To my surprise, the rotary was stupid simple to use. You just drop it in the machine, set your part on it, and let the software handle the rest. No measuring, no calculating circumference, no ritual sacrifices—just click and go. Kind of blew my mind.
manwithtools
ALLIANCE MEMBER
The one thing I wish Glowforge would have included. I think their vision was very short sighted in that regard.
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Milton Shaw
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2011
- Messages
- 4,833
Just use a Sharpie to coat the areas you need layout lines on. Probably have several in shop already.
cvairwerks
Well-known member
Milton: I'm the one that asked Ryan to try it. Trying to cover a 2'x4' piece of 4130 sheet with a Sharpie is an exercise in frustration and prohibitively expensive. Using Sharpie Magnums, it would take 12 of them at 6$ each to cover that piece of steel. Conversely, 4 ounces of Dykem is 12$ and will cover a couple of 4'x8' sheets.
Bennylava
Well-known member
I was referring to the "size" of the power level. I thought everyone would know that already since most people here would have seen burning pen lasers on youtube by now