Building a buggy: nobggrnchvy

bggrnchvy · Mar 22, 2021

I was updating my garage thread as this progressed, but realize it's not really the right place for it. I'll keep the build updates here and the garage stuff in the garage thread:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=277895

So, I'm building a buggy to replace my crawler. I turned a gmt400 into a very heavy play toy that no longer fit either my life or my trailer.

I took the Chevy apart and have no sold almost everything but for the engine, transmission and odds and ends (winch, coil overs, drivelines, etc.)

The build plan is to build a Goatbuilt Ibex kit, specifically the 4 seat XL chassis. The abbreviated reason, I just don't have the hundreds of hours available to design and build from scratch a one off. Drew has done a really excellent job on the kit design (I've helped build one already) and the subframe and all the chassis tabs/skids are Domex 600, 100ksi steel. Hard to get a more well thought out product and a lighter weight than this route without the hours I don't have.

https://goatbuilt.com/

Engine will be based around the LQ9 I had in the big green Chevy. It needs a cam/pushrods/injectors and probably heads. 500hp at the crank in a usable RPM band would be about right.

Transmission is going to be a later model 4L80e with rear lube. It will get a Jakes Transmission kit and probably a ~2200 stall converter.

I have an ORD Magnum crawl box on order and a Ford 205 transfer case a friend is donating for the transfer case(s).

The axles are going to be a '10 F-250 Dana 60 up front and a '01-12 GM 14 bolt out back when I find one for the right price. Front is getting a 40 spline ARB, 1550 4340 shafts with CTMs and flanges with 5.38's. Rear is going to be spooled with matching 5.38s.

So, onto building.

I built a chassis table to build this frame on.

After 3 weeks stuck shipping from WI to CA the kit finally arrived and we broke down the pallet.

bggrnchvy · Mar 22, 2021

Into the meat and potatoes, building something.

I cleaned and cleaned, then cleaned some more all the plate pieces that make up the subframe.

It all went together pretty reasonably, but I did appreciate being able to clamp it to the table to draw some pieces together.

This was followed by a lot of time behind the gun and torch welding it out. I try and weld most things with the tig, it's more fun and cleaner, but this was just too many long stretches that would have need a couple of passes. Out came the hot glue gun and it took me a bit of work to get back into the groove. Definitely moving too fast on a couple of the filets.

So, subframe done and set aside. I built the fixture prescribed by Goatbuilt. 2x4 box that their fixture plates get tacked to in a couple of configurations during assembly. Then it was time to start cleaning tubing and weld prepping all the joints and making it all fit together.

I started this last weekend with the perimeter tubes and the hoop that becomes the elbow rail together. I was able to fit up the rest of the nose Sunday.

The next step was to flip the chassis in the fixture to work on the people tank and the back side. Really glad to have a little crane to help.

So now it sits, waiting for more tubing a few nights this week. I used a Sumner pipe jack under the nose just to keep the load off all the tacks holding it together currently and make it safe for my almost 3yo to run around again.

bggrnchvy · Mar 22, 2021

At some point during all this, the front axle also showed up. It needs a lot of time with a plasma and sawzall to be stripped down far enough to be useful.

C91x · Mar 22, 2021

This should be a fun one to watch.

Bigblue&Goldie · Mar 22, 2021

Yeah, I'm stoked to follow along. I talked to Drew at KOH this year. Super cool guy with great products.

f150skidoo · Mar 22, 2021

Following, looks like a cool build.

Bob Heine · Mar 23, 2021

Looking forward to using a chunk of my free time to follow along.

zmotorsports · Mar 23, 2021

Subscribed.

Followed the beginning over on your shop projects thread.

fordkid88 · Mar 23, 2021

Subscribed

nimrag · Mar 24, 2021

Subscribed

Jacko264 · Mar 25, 2021

Following with interest good work so far keep it up
Graham

Bighead38 · Mar 25, 2021

I remember you from GMFS.

Mr.N · Mar 27, 2021

bggrnchvy said:
I was updating my garage thread as this progressed, but realize it's not really the right place for it.

Good call.

bggrnchvy said:
Transmission is going to be a later model 4L80e with rear lube. It will get a Jakes Transmission kit and probably a ~2200 stall converter.

For those reading along... why the "later model 4L80e with rear lube" and what years?
Why not a six speed?

Why did you pick the Jakes over B&M?

Why a 2200 stall vs a stock converter?

Keep the pics and descriptions coming! This is going to be an awesome read.

bggrnchvy · Mar 29, 2021

Bigblue&Goldie said:
Yeah, I'm stoked to follow along. I talked to Drew at KOH this year. Super cool guy with great products.

He's been very helpful. He's actually helping me make a mod to the chassis so I can fit dual shocks per corner behind the rear seat while still working with all the sheet metal he has on the shelf.

zmotorsports said:
Subscribed.

Followed the beginning over on your shop projects thread.

Thanks for following.

Bighead38 said:
I remember you from GMFS.

You had the blue 8.1L right?

Mr.N said:
Good call.

For those reading along... why the "later model 4L80e with rear lube" and what years?
Why not a six speed?

Rear lube was 97+. It provides better lubrication to the rear planetaries both by using a bigger pump gear and having the lube port go back to the rear support and the intermediate shaft is solid (holds more power). Later (99+) had a lot of improvements as well, i.e. bonded piston, steel doweled OD clutches, solid input shaft, wider front band, etc.

I would have lover to do a 6l80e. Honestly, it's a great option...if you have a later 4th gen engine. My LQ9 is the older 24 tooth relutor ring on the crank to run the older computers which are not compatible with the 6l80e. The genIV+ engines have a 58 tooth wheel that run a newer faster computer. I didn't want to pull the crank on my motor to change reluctor rings and my friend scored me a late model 4l80e core I've had for a few years. I will make up for no 4:1 1st gear with the ORD magnum crawl box.

Mr.N said:
Why did you pick the Jakes over B&M?

Jakes kits include modded parts. Extra friction for the direct pack, modded hub for a roller thrust bearing, and it all comes at a really reasonable cost when you try and put the parts together yourself.

Mr.N said:
Why a 2200 stall vs a stock converter?

The 2.48 first gear and an aggressive cam make off idle grunt a little less pronounced. Letting the motor slip a bit more into the modded power band helps a lot. A big ****** cooler removes the extra heat.

Mr.N said:
Keep the pics and descriptions coming! This is going to be an awesome read.

Ask and you shall receive. I had a full weekend into the kit and the tubes (that I have at the moment) are almost all in.

Friday I got the rear, bottom tubes in. This is where the rear seat, fuel tank, shocks and storage all ends up.

In order to make the next step Saturday, which is the main hoops, I had to build the slugs that rosette and **** weld into the front and back bent tubes joining them into a solid piece.

The amount of welding isn't critical here so I used it as an opportunity to play with rod sizes. 3/32 was the clear winner. I couldn't feed the 1/16 fast enough to make either a consistent bead or a thick enough throat.

This is where I ended Saturday night and I wish I had known what I messed up earlier than I found it here.

I wasn't thinking hard enough and assumed the front hoops would fall into place. So I welded out the rosettes fully (8 of them) on one side, both **** joints and 4 of the 8 on the other side. Then I tired to fit the eyebrow tube...to long by almost 2". I got to spend a couple hours cutting out the **** joint welds and die grinding the rosettes to allow the front tubes to rotate again. Lots of wasted time there.

That done though, it fit together nicely. There was a lot of use of ratchet straps to pull it all into final place. The windshield bars were still out of square enough to see, so I pulled them in before locking out the roof structure and then adding in the seat belt tubes, which double as the B hoop cross bracing, and the dash bar.

pennsylvaniaboy · Mar 29, 2021

you should come over to IRATE4x4......kinda the new pirate....I followed your old truck build for years.

bggrnchvy · Mar 29, 2021

pennsylvaniaboy said:
you should come over to IRATE4x4......kinda the new pirate....I followed your old truck build for years.

I'm there, I moved over when it started. Like Pirate, Irate is definitely a place to be further into a build before starting a thread just because of the myriad of expert and 'expert' opinions. I'll get one going over there eventually.

pennsylvaniaboy · Mar 29, 2021

Your front axle build sounds impressive. I put one in my dads buggy. 5.13's, stock 1550 shafts, ECGS drive flanges, riffraff abs zerks, and bustedknuckle offroad brakes. Used a 10" ram with artec weld on arms. and I think a ruffstuff shallow cover.

Are you planning to run adapters on the 14 bolt or redrill the front?? I have always thought an e-locker sterling would be th best fit. My dads buggy will most likely get that if he roaches the 9" in there currently

bggrnchvy · Mar 29, 2021

pennsylvaniaboy said:
Your front axle build sounds impressive. I put one in my dads buggy. 5.13's, stock 1550 shafts, ECGS drive flanges, riffraff abs zerks, and bustedknuckle offroad brakes. Used a 10" ram with artec weld on arms. and I think a ruffstuff shallow cover.

Are you planning to run adapters on the 14 bolt or redrill the front?? I have always thought an e-locker sterling would be th best fit. My dads buggy will most likely get that if he roaches the 9" in there currently

Adapters in the back to bring track width up to match the front more closely.

Sterling or 14FF was a toss up for me. The end reason is just cost, Sterlings around here seem to be $800 if they're disc. I can go get a 14ff from a yard for $300.

Bighead38 · Mar 29, 2021

Nah I had a ****** black rcsb. Just bought a 2015 2500 Sierra All Terrain a few weeks ago. It’s amazing what a 30 year jump in technology can do.

Dan_Goodwin · Mar 29, 2021

I followed the truck build on Pirate for a long time and I'll definitely add this to the list to follow.

bggrnchvy · Mar 30, 2021

Bighead38 said:
Nah I had a ****** black rcsb. Just bought a 2015 2500 Sierra All Terrain a few weeks ago. It’s amazing what a 30 year jump in technology can do.

Sorry, thinking of a different person.

The ORD Magnum crawl box showed up along with a 205 rebuild kit. I need to plan a trip to go pickup a rear end and the 205 in the coming weeks.

mtnkid85 · Mar 30, 2021

That ord box is beef! Me likey!

Mr.N · Mar 31, 2021

bggrnchvy said:
The 2.48 first gear and an aggressive cam make off idle grunt a little less pronounced. Letting the motor slip a bit more into the modded power band helps a lot. A big ****** cooler removes the extra heat.

Thanks bggrnchvy,
Awesome answers and I can tell this thread is going to be great.

So, how aggressive a cam are you looking at?
Richard Holdener has some great videos' on cams. My take is the best for torque are the aggressive stage Ones and most Stage two's. Your thoughts on a SUM-8719? Too stock?

Mr.N · Mar 31, 2021

bggrnchvy said:
The ORD Magnum crawl box showed up along with a 205 rebuild kit. I need to plan a trip to go pickup a rear end and the 205 in the coming weeks.

Took me 1.5 years to find a good spare Ford 205 at a fair price, I could only image how hard it would be to find one in CA let alone the price...

ColoradoToy91 · Mar 31, 2021

Love the project, I finished my new buggy last year. Glad to see you posting here since Pirate is dead. Are you posting over on Irate4x4.com (the new pirate)?

pennsylvaniaboy · Apr 1, 2021

ColoradoToy91 said:
Love the project, I finished my new buggy last year. Glad to see you posting here since Pirate is dead. Are you posting over on Irate4x4.com (the new pirate)?

Do you have a build thread somewhere?

slowtwitch73 · Apr 1, 2021

What happened to Pirate?

bggrnchvy · Apr 1, 2021

Mr.N said:
Thanks bggrnchvy,
Awesome answers and I can tell this thread is going to be great.

So, how aggressive a cam are you looking at?
Richard Holdener has some great videos' on cams. My take is the best for torque are the aggressive stage Ones and most Stage two's. Your thoughts on a SUM-8719? Too stock?

Summits 8719 is very tame, duration and lift aren't very aggressive. Lobe separation is nice, and should give a noticeable audible change.

I'm thinking something more like a 220-225/218-225 @.580 or .600 lift with a 112 LSA. On the fence of what to do with the heads right now, cheap 799s or go LS3 and do L92 heads and truck intake. L92 means injector harness has to get reworked, new throttle body. Not sure if I would need to move anything accesory'wise, I think it would all fit with the tall intake. I'll probably just stick to the 799s for the bump in compression.

Mr.N said:
Took me 1.5 years to find a good spare Ford 205 at a fair price, I could only image how hard it would be to find one in CA let alone the price...

A good friend has one in pieces he's giving me. It was missing the output and needs a rebuild. I picked up a new late model output shaft and bought a full rebuild kit for it from ORD when I picked up the Magnum.

ColoradoToy91 said:
Love the project, I finished my new buggy last year. Glad to see you posting here since Pirate is dead. Are you posting over on Irate4x4.com (the new pirate)?

I'm on Irate, I'll make a thread when I have some more progress than a tacked chassis kit and a pile of parts accumulated.

slowtwitch73 said:
What happened to Pirate?

Sold to Canadian forum consortium, run poorly for years, then they 'upgraded' the format the way they keep doing on other bulletin boards to be more like bookface. End result: everybody jumped ship to irate. PBB is like a ghost town.

Mr.N · Apr 1, 2021

bggrnchvy said:
I'm thinking something more like a 220-225/218-225 @.580 or .600 lift with a 112 LSA. On the fence of what to do with the heads right now, cheap 799s or go LS3 and do L92 heads and truck intake. L92 means injector harness has to get reworked, new throttle body. Not sure if I would need to move anything accesory'wise, I think it would all fit with the tall intake. I'll probably just stick to the 799s for the bump in compression.

706/826's beet the 799's up to 700+ HP... if you trust Richards Dyno runs.
Thoughts...

bggrnchvy · Apr 2, 2021

Mr.N said:
706/826's beet the 799's up to 700+ HP... if you trust Richards Dyno runs.
Thoughts...

I'm leery of the even smaller chamber with the flat tops in the LQ9 honestly, 11.4 is pushing it on 91 octane which is the highest I can count on in CA. The 64.5cc of the 799s puts me at 11:1.

bggrnchvy · Apr 5, 2021

Easter weekend, I didn't get a lot of time to work on this. The main hoop plug welds all got filled and I welded out the **** joint so I could put the support tube back in and then the tube gussets. I also fit 4 tubes (2 per side) under the elbow rail, the front seat mount support tube to those and the 2 wind shield spreader bars. Baring 2 more tube gussets, I'm now waiting on the rear worked tubes for the rear before pulling it off the fixture and fitting the subframe onto the bottom prior to weldout.

I also stripped the accessory drive and manifolds off the motor. It needs to be de cluttered and the low PS mount in the factory position, even though it's not a factory bracket or pump, won't work here so I need to start mocking it up.

Mr.N · Apr 5, 2021

ColoradoToy91 said:
Love the project, I finished my new buggy last year. Glad to see you posting here since Pirate is dead. Are you posting over on Irate4x4.com (the new pirate)?

What is the one thing that you did to your buggy that you are extremely happy you did.
Now, what is the one thing that surprised you that you like more than you thought...

.

shoeless · Apr 10, 2021

bggrnchvy said:
Sold to Canadian forum consortium, run poorly for years, then they 'upgraded' the format the way they keep doing on other bulletin boards to be more like bookface. End result: everybody jumped ship to irate. PBB is like a ghost town.

Well damn, when did this happen? I had some somewhat older (2-3 YO) threads bookmarked with some people I wanted to contact at some point for help with a pending LS swap into my LJ. Not ready yet to start it yet, starting a new business so cash is tight.

This is a badass build. Should be awesome when you’re done. Look forward to watching this.

Olecoot1 · Apr 13, 2021

Nice to see another Goatbuilt chassis in the making. Looks really good. I'm building one of his LJ Chassis currently.

Mr.N · Apr 23, 2021

Any updates?

bggrnchvy · Apr 26, 2021

Olecoot1 said:
Nice to see another Goatbuilt chassis in the making. Looks really good. I'm building one of his LJ Chassis currently.

The TJ/LJ chassis' are a neat product. Interested to see how yours is progressing.

Mr.N said:
Any updates?

It was a bit of a stall, the tubes took a little bit to get here but they arrived late last week.

I started here, a standard configuration XL chassis rear lower frame all tacked together.

Then I removed all the tubes that were to be replaced. Started to look pretty empty.

It all went together pretty quickly. Tube prep continues to be the biggest time ****. Now the rear seat is forward of an XL chassis, but the same spot as the regular 4 seater. This makes room for bypass shocks along with coilovers and retains a 40" wide bench. I also finished welding the sleeved **** joint where the passenger front and rear pillars mate over the b pillar tube and added the two tube gussets.

The next step is pull it from the fixture, flip it on to its lid and use the fixture brackets to locate the belly and tack it up in preparation for weld out.

rattle_snake · Apr 26, 2021

Good to see you moving the front driveshaft over to the other side
:fawk:

Been eyeballing crawl boxes, wish they had provision for a cross member mount integrated into them like adapters they replace. You going to do a rear mount on the 205?

toobs are lookin' good!

RogueFab · Apr 26, 2021

That kit is going together really well! You're going to shed some serious weight by the time it's done!

Mr.N · Apr 26, 2021

bggrnchvy said:
It was a bit of a stall, the tubes took a little bit to get here but they arrived late last week.

I started here, a standard configuration XL chassis rear lower frame all tacked together.
Then I removed all the tubes that were to be replaced. Started to look pretty empty.

Tube prep continues to be the biggest time ****.

This is a lot of fun to watch the progress you are making, keep posting!

I must of miss it, why did you remove the tubes?

It's late now, but for those reading along a good solution for removing mill scale is to soak them in critic acid. Yeah it takes 24 hours and a tub, but totally is worth waiting compared to taking them off manually. Also read up on flash rust.

bggrnchvy · Apr 26, 2021

rattle_snake said:
Good to see you moving the front driveshaft over to the other side

Been eyeballing crawl boxes, wish they had provision for a cross member mount integrated into them like adapters they replace. You going to do a rear mount on the 205?

toobs are lookin' good!

It only makes sense to quit fighting the way the drivetrain was designed and out the shaft under the driver.

This crawl box still uses a factory adapter to the ******, so I still have the front crossmember mount. I will probably build a tail housing mount off the 205 using the same bushing as the ****** adapter side.

RogueFab said:
That kit is going together really well! You're going to shed some serious weight by the time it's done!

That is the hope!

Mr.N said:
This is a lot of fun to watch the progress you are making, keep posting!

I must of miss it, why did you remove the tubes?

It's late now, but for those reading along a good solution for removing mill scale is to soak them in critic acid. Yeah it takes 24 hours and a tub, but totally is worth waiting compared to taking them off manually. Also read up on flash rust.

The standard xl configuration (+6" length) is a single coilover each side behind the rear seat to the back of the axle. I'm going to fit a bypass shock as well, so Goatbuilt came up with another configuration that pushed the rear seat forward were a normal 4 seat would chassis would put it so the exterior panels and seat mounts still work. Since this is the +6" chassis, we end up with 6 inches behind the rear seat to fit the second shock. This required new tubes to fit.

I have one of these tube polishers, it works pretty well with a 120 grit belt.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HB22E76/?tag=atomicindus08-20

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