To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Between 705 & 1200 SQ/FT Lodi Motors

Workspaces between 705 and 1200 squarefeet.

fourmotioneer

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
198
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
Hi all! In September of 2021, my family moved outside of Ann Arbor, MI to a home that we hope to stay in for a long time. The search for a home was casual, and the list of requirements was really just: 1) decent public schools 2) a home with an updated interior and somewhat classic (debatable!) style 3) some space for visitors. We ended up finding something that we didn't really expect to like - something adjacent to a 'modern farmhouse' with open concept interior. I'm very open to the criticism of this style, but when evaluating the market in the Detroit area, this was the best home for our needs. No plans to indulge in the 'modern farmhouse' cliches beyond what the exterior conveys. So with that defensive intro, here's the new house:

The specs:
  • 40x26 double but with an 8' section on the right that is only 20' deep or so
  • 2.5 acre lot with gravel horseshoe drive
  • Concrete pad outside the garage
IMG_6587.jpeg
And here is the subject of the thread, the garage:
IMG_8312.jpeg

Zoom and enhance:
IMG_8271.jpeg
 
Last edited:
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
OP
F

fourmotioneer

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
198
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
How we got here: from a condo -> home 1

My wife (gf at the time) and I moved from Columbus, IN ("if you know, you know") to Dearborn, MI ("if you know, you know" applies to more folks here) in spring of 2014 and bought our first house, which had a wonderful 24x24 detached garage. I, in an act of no-start diagnosis of my 1989 Alfa Romeo Milano Verde, accidentally initiated a conflagration that leveled that garage in April of 2015. My wife and I rebuilt that garage during the summer of 2015 and I worked in that garage and lived at that home until spring of 2020

I had my first taste of mechanical disaster when I blew the engine on my 89 Milano Verde back in Indiana. Brought that one back to good health in my awesome condo basement garage (seriously cool condo layout for my taste):
IMG_0047.JPG

Here's the Dearborn garage prior to the fire. This eventually got organized, but this photo is from right after move-in:
IMG_0269.JPG

The rebuilt garage and the home (with a mess on the left side of the garage since I had to bring the junk from behind the garage inside for the city inspector to inspect the home for sale) :
IMG_1054.jpeg
IMG_0658.jpeg

Some happenings from that garage, and some pics below the list:

  • 79 Alfa Romeo Sprint Veloce (sold): Bought in pieces in 2015; sold it, in fewer piece, in 2017
  • 88 Alfa Romeo Milano Verde: purchased a month after I lost my first Verde in the garage fire. Rebuilt the engine in 2018 and upgraded to 10:1 pistons, sporty cams, ported heads, headers, stainless exhaust. Car rides on Bilsteins and sport springs and I drive it as much as possible, including on a trip to Seattle. CA car, won't ever sell this one
  • 91 Alfa Romeo 164L (sold): Purchased fall 2015 in NJ and drove it back. Replaced suspension and brakes, pulled engine to reseal, swap clutch etc. Sold that in spring 2017. Just didn't love the attention required to use it as a DD and winter car, but really love a manual 164!
  • 2004 Maserati Coupe GT (sold): 6-speed manual that I bought in spring 2017 from the second owner. It was dead reliable, and though I did have to swap the heater core, that was a fun project. I sell window regulator pins for these cars now and that project has profited more than I paid for the car, so this was a good purchase. Sold in Spring 2020 on BaT
  • 2013 Fiat 500 Abarth (sold): Bought in fall 2017 from original owner who took very good care of it. Drove it from 39k miles to 80k miles including trip to LA. Something happened that led to rod knock, so I sold it and I'm looking to replace it soonish
And some projects I took on for others:
  • Mechanical restoration of a 1988 Alfa Romeo Milano Verde: Did this for a customer who turned out to be very well-connected. Nice guy and I bought his (very expensive) book after the job was done. Still starstruck from the whole deal, and he paid me a fair wage for the work.
  • Rebuild of hot 3.0L for Alfa Romeo GTV6: Simple cleanup and rebuild for a friend's car
  • Clutch on a PT Cruiser GT: Cooler than it sounds! I'd buy one if I found a clean one
  • Stage 3 bolt-ons on MK5 GTI: Installed K04 turbo, intercooler, downpipe, and clutch on my brother's MK5 GTI
Photo evidence below:

The Alfa phase:
IMG_1189 (1) (2016_03_20 15_46_45 UTC).JPG
Abarth, Maser, and the Alfa squeezed in:

IMG_2102.JPG

Alfas lined up for various services:
IMG_6013.JPG

Alfa V6 on the stand with the Abarth looking on uncomfortably. Don't worry, my Abarth, your time will (did) come:
IMG_7559.JPG


Finished customer Verde:
IMG_6161.JPG
 
Last edited:
OP
F

fourmotioneer

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
198
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
How we got here: home 1 -> home 2

At some point in 2020 while looking at local homes, I spotted something close by; a distinctive home on a double lot with a large detached garage out back necessitated a tour, followed by an offer and quick purchase. We kept the old home and rented it to another Alfa enthusiast friend for a year.

We bought the newer home mostly furnished, which was cool since the previous owner had filled it with (period correct?) antiques, and we didn't have to do much to decorate. I refer to this as the Ferrari home, not because it was expensive, but because it felt exotic, looked great, was delicate and...wasn't so child friendly. We brought our first kid home in September 2020 and at 3 months he and I fell down the steep steps in the home. He was ok, but the steps never felt safe for my size 13 feet. So we started looking around for new homes.

The newer home:
IMG_0082.jpeg


The garage had received an addition recently, resulting in a 10x22 workshop that I could drive my diminutive cars into. I never moved my equipment from the old garage to this one - a mere 2 miles away - since I could use my old garage still for any repairs. I moved the minimum of tools to this garage and mentally committed to a teardown / rebuild or some sort or rework to get a more useable garage within the constraints of the city building code (16' max height, 700sqf max if I recall correctly)

A shot of the garage itself:

IMG_0652.JPG


And the shop full of Fiat:
IMG_0664.JPG

And the shop area with the GTI receiving some teardown attention

IMG_5706.JPG

MK1 VWs jammed into the shop area

_DSC9793.JPG

Winter parking situation:

IMG_5611.JPG

An interloper (2.3-16 M-B belonging to my brother) among my cars

IMG_1291.JPG

My brother's 91 Audi 200 Turbo Quattro 20V before heading to Idaho
_DSC9861.JPG

And cars just being dudes

IMG_0004 2.jpeg

The view of the back of the house

IMG_0793.JPG
 
Last edited:
OP
F

fourmotioneer

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
198
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
Interlude: the green cars

Working in the auto industry for me has taken a lot of the magic away from cars, but something about the Great Falls Green from VW offered in like 2018 and 2019 was worth some irrational effort. When the Golf Alltrack got canceled, my wife, who had planned to buy a new one after business school, scrambled to find a new GFG / brown manual SEL model on a dealership lot. Thankfully, being 2019, it was sold at like a 15% discount (less than it's worth today even?) and after flying to Boston and crying when the dealership drilled holes in the front bumper (hence the cringy dubber euro plate lol), she had her Alltrack.

I installed VW OEM mudflats since we live on a dirt road. Bought some roof racks on VWvortex, and got some General snow tires (on purpose, have used them so many times and they are great) on cheap Sparco 16" wheels that eat up potholes. Car has been great but with AWD, the fuel economy isn't as good as the GTI.

In 2020, something about the single dude / empty nester (and nothing in between) look of the Maserati Coupe got to me, so I listed it on BaT and got most of my money back. Loved how it sounded, almost got into the look (I get the idea but execution is off), and was ok with how it drove for a GT. But, it was time to move on after 4 great years.

So, something in my head told me a GTI would be a good replacement. Acceleration is similar unless you're trying to go to jail, ride and handling on the GTI are 10x better for my use, and I think the GTI actually looks better for what it is. I wanted GFG to match my wife's car because I'm an idiot, so I found a 6-speed SE with 12k miles certified, and with the DCC (three mode adaptive dampers). The dampers are barely noticeable, so I sort of wish I had found a S with the plaid seats instead of the leather in my SE, but I'll live.

So, some photos of the green cars:
IMG_6230.JPG

My wife trying to break the VWVortex with that 6-speed GFG / Marrakesh brown SEL Alltrack lol
IMG_7755.JPG

IMG_1563.jpeg

Crewed up on snow tires

IMG_3698.jpeg
 

Trapps

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
1,984
Location
The Detroit Zoo
Great looking place! Great story!

Hmm, a penchant for Italians and a fan of Germans. With a new 2.5 acre spread. Garage Journal wants to know when you be getting a 'trattori' for yard work, 40HP at least. Something from Landini, Valpadana or even an old Lamborghini should do...
 
OP
F

fourmotioneer

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
198
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
Great looking place! Great story!

Hmm, a penchant for Italians and a fan of Germans. With a new 2.5 acre spread. Garage Journal wants to know when you be getting a 'trattori' for yard work, 40HP at least. Something from Landini, Valpadana or even an old Lamborghini should do...

Well, I can’t push the limits of Michigan’s right to farm without a tractor, can I?

That’s a gorgeous place OP, congrats. So what’s the plan for the garage?
More to come! Thanks
 
OP
F

fourmotioneer

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
198
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
House 2: the interim garage

Despite comments to the contrary, our 2020 move to house 2 was not motivated by the 700sqf (city maximum) garage. I was more drawn to the style of our 1928(?) home bordering but not lying within the Ford Homes Historic District in Dearborn. The double lot was appreciated as well. But the garage? In my mind, a teardown was necessary.

Irrational as I can be, the thought of tearing down a perfectly sound garage was not appealing.

My concerns centered around:
  • Removal of the existing pad - either a lot of effort and equipment rentals, or a good chunk of change
  • How, if at all, to recycle the building material so as not to be completely wasteful?
  • The cost of pouring a new pad, and how far to go? (In-floor scissor lift? Radiant heat?)
  • Where to get the time to build a new structure?
  • Or, how to justify paying a crew to do it for me?
  • Most importantly, is the marginal benefit really worth the money?
In short, I struggled with the value of it, and didn't even seek out quotes. With that said, I did post on GJ about potential plans.

Below is a model of the garage as it sat (French doors modeled as a single opening). It was going to be a tight fit in the workshop area once the equipment was in there.

Garage at house 2 as it stood:
current_iso.JPG

And below is the concept I came up with for a 3 car garage. At 32'x22', this would be a mini 3 car with 8' wide doors and not much space between 3 parked cars. Believing that we were going to be in that home for a long time, I considered getting started on making it a reality, but as listed above, the concerns outweighed the benefits. So, again, the concepts for new garage are below:

Proposed new layout at house 2 garage
new_iso.JPG
3car iso.JPG

The compromise:

With a new kid at home and a buddy renting the old house and making great use of the garage, I never got around to moving my tools over. Nights in the garage became less frequent too; part of this was due to becoming a parent, sure, but the bigger issue was the stupid workload at the EV startup I was working for at the time. I was spending a lot of time late in the evenings working on CAD models - something I enjoyed since engineers in Detroit in my experience don't get to use CAD.

The result of this is that I put together the minimum viable garage for my slow teardown of the 83 GTI "barn find" project I had brought home in December 2020. I utilized a nice 2'x10' slab of butcher block that was in the old garage and some free metal table uprights from a friend to make a temporary workbench. Kept my GTI parts - take-offs and new - beneath the bench and up in the loft. And I got plenty town down. Sadly, when it came time to move, I had to bolt it all back up in order to move the car on its own wheels, but the effort wasn't all wasted.

So, this:IMG_5715.JPG

Became this:
IMG_0007.jpeg

Which started to look like this:
IMG_0010.jpeg

A loft above saw some storage use as well:
IMG_5709.JPG


Not bad, really. And, as mentioned, I had some productive work sessions out here. I missed my tools to some extent, but I was thankful to have time and space to work on my GTI.

Storing cars was a challenge, since the other side of the garage had a small lip around the parking area that made it tough to squeeze three cars in there (but easy to roll an ankle...). I did end up with three in there after some effort though.

This image is a repost from before, but it demonstrates the fact that this side of the garage was really tough to fit 3 cars into:

IMG_5611.JPG

Next post: the move to the current garage
 
Last edited:
OP
F

fourmotioneer

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
198
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
The move to house 3:

At some point in the process of purchasing house 3, we accepted an offer on house 1. That offer ultimately fell through due to the seller's inability to secure a mortgage, but at the time we thought we had to be out of house 1 within 30 days of accepting the offer. So, at some point between the inspection and closing on house 3, we asked the sellers if we could move the garage equipment over ~10 days before closing. They kindly agreed to it, and I scrambled to pack up the garage with the help of multiple friends.

Looking back at the empty first garage:

IMG_2365.jpeg

And the mess that had now invaded the new garage:
IMG_1665.jpeg

IMG_1663.jpeg

Eventually, we sold house 1, and later we sold house 2 as well. That triggered another influx of material into the new garage.

The Rabbit truck got a couple of workouts:
IMG_1984.jpeg

IMG_2366.jpeg

Moving the garage and rest of house 2 led to a mostly unusable garage:
IMG_1966.jpeg
 
OP
F

fourmotioneer

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
198
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
After things with the move settled back down, I was able to put some effort into the garage.


This was the starting point once the house items had been moved out of the garage:
IMG_2780.jpeg


I moved things around so that I could get the storage shelves up in the back:
IMG_3205.jpeg

And ended up in a disorganized but contained state as seen here:
IMG_3241.jpeg

And here:

IMG_3244.jpeg

This meant that the Milano had a home again:

IMG_3371.jpeg
IMG_3379.jpeg
 

nicholam77

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 18, 2016
Messages
2,652
Location
Minneapolis, MN
Glad you started the thread, it's absolutely awesome!! Man you've had a busy couple of years. Having a kid and full-time job is hard enough, not sure how you manage flipping cars and houses left and right :ROFLMAO:

The new house and property look beautiful to me. The symmetry and wrap-around covered deck really make it for me (on the exterior).

Sounds like maybe Modern architecture isn't your thing, but Columbus, Indiana is on my radar because of the 2017 film Columbus.

The leather seats in the Alltrack SEL look nicer than the GTI!

The new space looks perfect and you sure have some neat cars. Looking forward to more 🍻
 
OP
F

fourmotioneer

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
198
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
Glad you started the thread, it's absolutely awesome!! Man you've had a busy couple of years. Having a kid and full-time job is hard enough, not sure how you manage flipping cars and houses left and right :ROFLMAO:

The new house and property look beautiful to me. The symmetry and wrap-around covered deck really make it for me (on the exterior).

Sounds like maybe Modern architecture isn't your thing, but Columbus, Indiana is on my radar because of the 2017 film Columbus.

The leather seats in the Alltrack SEL look nicer than the GTI!

The new space looks perfect and you sure have some neat cars. Looking forward to more 🍻

Thanks for the kind words!

Oh man, it's funny that you should use the word "flipping". I get attached to cars and homes pretty quickly, and never buy anything intending to sell it. Simultaneously, I make decisions very quickly and live with the consequences, so cars like the Alfetta (too much fussy trim work for my taste), Alfa 164 (just wasn't what I wanted to waste driveway space on) and houses like the 2nd house (so cool and yet so difficult to live with) all leave the moment the cons outweigh the pros. Decisive is a nice way of putting it, impatient a negative description, and the truth lies in between.

The symmetry of the new house, and the fact that the garage is treated as a detached with a walkway (vs. integrated into the design) was big for me. It didn't bother me that it reminded me strongly of my personal favorite home, the Gerhardt home from Fargo season 2.
24da83c60575d3c99adca96476744f41.png

I actually never got around to watching the film Columbus, but that needs to go on the short list. Columbus, IN, as you know, is an unlikely architectural gem. Even more interesting is that the financial backing for the design in that town comes from the family that founded Cummins. My wife and I met as Cummins interns, and I miss Indiana more than she does (way better driving roads than in Michigan!)

The SEL seats are great and, in my opinion better than the GTI leather because the SEL uses fake leather! As much as I like cloth seats, fake leather is just so easy to clean and keep in good shape.
 

racer-john

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
1,461
Location
Newmarket, ON Canada
After things with the move settled back down, I was able to put some effort into the garage.


This was the starting point once the house items had been moved out of the garage:
IMG_2780.jpeg


I moved things around so that I could get the storage shelves up in the back:
IMG_3205.jpeg

And ended up in a disorganized but contained state as seen here:
IMG_3241.jpeg

And here:

IMG_3244.jpeg

This meant that the Milano had a home again:

IMG_3371.jpeg
IMG_3379.jpegI wish I could find a VW Rabbet PU!
 

racer-john

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
1,461
Location
Newmarket, ON Canada
After things with the move settled back down, I was able to put some effort into the garage.


This was the starting point once the house items had been moved out of the garage:
IMG_2780.jpeg


I moved things around so that I could get the storage shelves up in the back:
IMG_3205.jpeg

And ended up in a disorganized but contained state as seen here:
IMG_3241.jpeg

And here:

IMG_3244.jpeg

This meant that the Milano had a home again:

IMG_3371.jpeg
IMG_3379.jpeg
I wish I could find a VW Rabbet PU!
 

nicholam77

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 18, 2016
Messages
2,652
Location
Minneapolis, MN
The symmetry of the new house, and the fact that the garage is treated as a detached with a walkway (vs. integrated into the design) was big for me. It didn't bother me that it reminded me strongly of my personal favorite home, the Gerhardt home from Fargo season 2.

Totally!

Oh man, it's funny that you should use the word "flipping". I get attached to cars and homes pretty quickly, and never buy anything intending to sell it. Simultaneously, I make decisions very quickly and live with the consequences, so cars like the Alfetta (too much fussy trim work for my taste), Alfa 164 (just wasn't what I wanted to waste driveway space on) and houses like the 2nd house (so cool and yet so difficult to live with) all leave the moment the cons outweigh the pros. Decisive is a nice way of putting it, impatient a negative description, and the truth lies in between.

Ha, I didn't mean flipping in a negative way... but any way you cut it that's a lot of cars and houses for a few years' time! I too, get attached to things, and I kind of admire your mindset of putting said things on the chopping block if necessary. If I really like something I'm more likely to just live with the cons.

I actually never got around to watching the film Columbus, but that needs to go on the short list. Columbus, IN, as you know, is an unlikely architectural gem.

The architecture is more of a backdrop to the story in the film. It's not the most uplifting film, and has a pretty meditative, slow pace compared to most media these days. But it might be interesting to you since you lived there (are from there?).

Even more interesting is that the financial backing for the design in that town comes from the family that founded Cummins. My wife and I met as Cummins interns, and I miss Indiana more than she does (way better driving roads than in Michigan!)

Ha, cool!
 
OP
F

fourmotioneer

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
198
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
Continued organization:

About a year after the move, and following the birth of our second son in June 2022, I got the garage into an organized but not optimized state. The silver GTI was up on wheel dollies in the corner, the pickup was by the work benches, and the Alltrack could be backed into the center spot for loading of children.
IMG_6134.jpeg

I made an effort to recreate the work setup from my original garage:
IMG_6826.jpeg

IMG_6834.jpeg
IMG_6135.jpeg

And I finally got the cord reel hung up. Glad I didn't lower the pickup!

IMG_5129.jpeg

And since this is a pickup-heavy post, here's a shot of the pickup warming up for its first drive of 2022:

IMG_5849.jpeg
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
OP
F

fourmotioneer

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
198
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
Solar power:

My wife was curious about solar power so she got a system installed on our (mostly) south-facing garage roof.

Components:
  • 20 x Cell 400W panels = 8kW of panels
  • 20 x Solar Edge P505 DC optimizers
  • Solar Edge 6kW inverter
  • IronRidge racking
This spring it's been making 60kWh on sunny days.

Overall it's an ok investment - pretty predictable return, but more of a diversification thing. I'm not actually sure if it's even environmentally friendly from a wholistic perspective (panel production, eventual panel recycling etc.). And while we were fine experimenting with the energy production financials, adding a battery backup seemed...luxurious. So I'll continue to rip my 7.6kW generator - with like zero emissions controls - during outages.

Adding an EV down the road will be a nice way to take advantage of the fact that consuming the energy is more cost-effective than selling it back. Lots of VWs in the garage, 2 kids with more to come...any guesses of what we have in mind? :)


IMG_2297.jpeg

IMG_2355.jpeg
 

nicholam77

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 18, 2016
Messages
2,652
Location
Minneapolis, MN
Taycan? It has back seats for the kids… :ROFLMAO:

The garage and cars are looking good. That first year of having a 2nd kid is tough (I thought… but mine was a terrible sleeper). Getting anything done was a challenge. As you know my space is much smaller, and I’m still working on “optimizing” it 7 years in, so I’d say yours is looking pretty good!

Interesting review of the solar panels. I’ve always been interested but it doesn’t make sense for my house and location.

Even EV’s I think are a bit questionable when you consider the whole pipeline and if your electricity is generated in a clean way. Or at least they might make less of an impact than some would like to believe. But still, it’s the right direction.
 
OP
F

fourmotioneer

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
198
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
Audi RS GT E-Tron ?

Tactical Green 😁


Taycan? It has back seats for the kids…

The garage and cars are looking good. That first year of having a 2nd kid is tough (I thought… but mine was a terrible sleeper). Getting anything done was a challenge. As you know my space is much smaller, and I’m still working on “optimizing” it 7 years in, so I’d say yours is looking pretty good!

Interesting review of the solar panels. I’ve always been interested but it doesn’t make sense for my house and location.

Even EV’s I think are a bit questionable when you consider the whole pipeline and if your electricity is generated in a clean way. Or at least they might make less of an impact than some would like to believe. But still, it’s the right direction.

I work on EV battery design at work so I’m not like anti-EV but the gigantic batteries seem sort of excessive to me.

But, I don’t really like the current crop of minivans (they are fine, just a lot of money for something that doesn’t inspire much emotion). SUVs don’t make sense for us either. The ID.Buzz seems worthy of selling my GTI for

6877985F-6D8B-4A08-8606-F22029ADFF35.jpeg
 
Last edited:

Boostingaz

Well-known member
Joined
May 21, 2018
Messages
3,657
Location
Indiana
Nothing against the EV craze and anyone on here. I already know I might catch some flack on this one.

My biggest question and dislike is why does everything have to be some outlandish i-robot looking thing. Why can't we just make "normal" cars with an electric option. I guess I just don't understand the super futuristic approach all these companies have. 🤷

Except for the wheels I think that Audi has the most attractive one right now.
 

nicholam77

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 18, 2016
Messages
2,652
Location
Minneapolis, MN
The ID.Buzz seems worthy of selling my GTI for

:oops:

Normally I'd say keep the GTI, but you have so many other interesting cars. I always forget about the ID.Buzz — when is that thing coming out? Feels like it's been teased forever.

Nothing against the EV craze and anyone on here. I already know I might catch some flack on this one.

My biggest question and dislike is why does everything have to be some outlandish i-robot looking thing. Why can't we just make "normal" cars with an electric option. I guess I just don't understand the super futuristic approach all these companies have. 🤷

I don't work in the automotive field at all, so maybe @fourmotioneer has better insight, but I'll chime in on this since I think it's an interesting question and a good question that I've thought about, too. I think there's multiple reasons why.

1/ EV's are less bound by traditional car layout constraints. They don't have a big engine to work around. They don't have a radiator or need a grill. They don't have an exhaust. There is more physical space to play around with. So in short... because they can.

2/ EV's symbolize something different, so I think OEM's and consumers feel they should look different. We've been told many times EV's are "the future", so why shouldn't they look futuristic?

3/ Especially with the niche luxury marques like Tesla, Rivian, Lucid, Fisker etc, consumers want to make a statement with their purchase. "Look at me, I did the socially responsible thing to cut carbon emissions and protect our planet. And I want that fact to be obvious to those around me." But I would argue even with more budget options, probably a lot of people want their EV to be recognizable as an EV, as a reminder to themselves and others that they are on the cutting edge or making some bold step away from the past.

My own .02 is that I welcome the new and crazy designs. Do I like them all? Would I buy them with my own hard-earned money? Maybe not, but seeing actual risk-taking in automotive design is exciting to me. It feels new and fresh and fun. Some models are a swing-and-a-miss, but that's true of traditional ICE cars, too.

And I think there are actually plenty of "safe" options out there. The original Tesla Model S has a fairly restrained design, while still being its own thing. The BMW eDrive i4 is not that far off from their current crop of giant-grilled combustion sedans. I think Audi and Porsche have some excellent designs with their EVs that aren't much of a departure from their ICE cars. Then you have cars like the Jaguar I-Pace, Volvo XC40 Recharge, the Ford F150 Lighting, and plenty more that are very traditional in their design, basically an EV in sheep's clothing. Design is personal, but I don't mind the middle ground like the ID series from Volkswagen, or the Ioniq 5 from Hyundai, that aren't afraid to explore new shapes and materials, but aren't full "I-Robot".
 

Boostingaz

Well-known member
Joined
May 21, 2018
Messages
3,657
Location
Indiana
:oops:

Normally I'd say keep the GTI, but you have so many other interesting cars. I always forget about the ID.Buzz — when is that thing coming out? Feels like it's been teased forever.



I don't work in the automotive field at all, so maybe @fourmotioneer has better insight, but I'll chime in on this since I think it's an interesting question and a good question that I've thought about, too. I think there's multiple reasons why.

1/ EV's are less bound by traditional car layout constraints. They don't have a big engine to work around. They don't have a radiator or need a grill. They don't have an exhaust. There is more physical space to play around with. So in short... because they can.

2/ EV's symbolize something different, so I think OEM's and consumers feel they should look different. We've been told many times EV's are "the future", so why shouldn't they look futuristic?

3/ Especially with the niche luxury marques like Tesla, Rivian, Lucid, Fisker etc, consumers want to make a statement with their purchase. "Look at me, I did the socially responsible thing to cut carbon emissions and protect our planet. And I want that fact to be obvious to those around me." But I would argue even with more budget options, probably a lot of people want their EV to be recognizable as an EV, as a reminder to themselves and others that they are on the cutting edge or making some bold step away from the past.

My own .02 is that I welcome the new and crazy designs. Do I like them all? Would I buy them with my own hard-earned money? Maybe not, but seeing actual risk-taking in automotive design is exciting to me. It feels new and fresh and fun. Some models are a swing-and-a-miss, but that's true of traditional ICE cars, too.

And I think there are actually plenty of "safe" options out there. The original Tesla Model S has a fairly restrained design, while still being its own thing. The BMW eDrive i4 is not that far off from their current crop of giant-grilled combustion sedans. I think Audi and Porsche have some excellent designs with their EVs that aren't much of a departure from their ICE cars. Then you have cars like the Jaguar I-Pace, Volvo XC40 Recharge, the Ford F150 Lighting, and plenty more that are very traditional in their design, basically an EV in sheep's clothing. Design is personal, but I don't mind the middle ground like the ID series from Volkswagen, or the Ioniq 5 from Hyundai, that aren't afraid to explore new shapes and materials, but aren't full "I-Robot".

Good answer. Well said. I'm with you a little now haha. Still not my cup of tea but I get it.
 
OP
F

fourmotioneer

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
198
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
:oops:

Normally I'd say keep the GTI, but you have so many other interesting cars. I always forget about the ID.Buzz — when is that thing coming out? Feels like it's been teased forever.



I don't work in the automotive field at all, so maybe @fourmotioneer has better insight, but I'll chime in on this since I think it's an interesting question and a good question that I've thought about, too. I think there's multiple reasons why.

1/ EV's are less bound by traditional car layout constraints. They don't have a big engine to work around. They don't have a radiator or need a grill. They don't have an exhaust. There is more physical space to play around with. So in short... because they can.

2/ EV's symbolize something different, so I think OEM's and consumers feel they should look different. We've been told many times EV's are "the future", so why shouldn't they look futuristic?

3/ Especially with the niche luxury marques like Tesla, Rivian, Lucid, Fisker etc, consumers want to make a statement with their purchase. "Look at me, I did the socially responsible thing to cut carbon emissions and protect our planet. And I want that fact to be obvious to those around me." But I would argue even with more budget options, probably a lot of people want their EV to be recognizable as an EV, as a reminder to themselves and others that they are on the cutting edge or making some bold step away from the past.

My own .02 is that I welcome the new and crazy designs. Do I like them all? Would I buy them with my own hard-earned money? Maybe not, but seeing actual risk-taking in automotive design is exciting to me. It feels new and fresh and fun. Some models are a swing-and-a-miss, but that's true of traditional ICE cars, too.

And I think there are actually plenty of "safe" options out there. The original Tesla Model S has a fairly restrained design, while still being its own thing. The BMW eDrive i4 is not that far off from their current crop of giant-grilled combustion sedans. I think Audi and Porsche have some excellent designs with their EVs that aren't much of a departure from their ICE cars. Then you have cars like the Jaguar I-Pace, Volvo XC40 Recharge, the Ford F150 Lighting, and plenty more that are very traditional in their design, basically an EV in sheep's clothing. Design is personal, but I don't mind the middle ground like the ID series from Volkswagen, or the Ioniq 5 from Hyundai, that aren't afraid to explore new shapes and materials, but aren't full "I-Robot".

Good response! I have no influence on design, but that’s a reasonable and logical explanation.

I will say that EVs do have radiators! To simplify (because there are all sorts of variations) motors and hot power electronics are cooled using a water to air radiator, and the batteries require subambient cooling, so they usually use coolant in conjunction with a refrigerant chiller (water to refrigerant evaporator) that is driven by a 400 or 800V DC refrigerant compressor. So there’s a condenser up front for the battery + cabin cooling needs.

And if I were to buy an EV it would be a MK7 e-Golf (with the larger battery pack), but I just don’t need one. That the ID.Buzz is an EV is neither a plus nor minus in our eyes. Just into the design and size!
 

nicholam77

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 18, 2016
Messages
2,652
Location
Minneapolis, MN
I will say that EVs do have radiators! To simplify (because there are all sorts of variations) motors and hot power electronics are cooled using a water to air radiator, and the batteries require subambient cooling, so they usually use coolant in conjunction with a refrigerant chiller (water to refrigerant evaporator) that is driven by a 400 or 800V DC refrigerant compressor. So there’s a condenser up front for the battery + cabin cooling needs.

Interesting, didn't know that!

And if I were to buy an EV it would be a MK7 e-Golf (with the larger battery pack), but I just don’t need one. That the ID.Buzz is an EV is neither a plus nor minus in our eyes. Just into the design and size!

Another EV I always forget about! I do see them around from time-to-time.
 
OP
F

fourmotioneer

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
198
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
Here was my dabble in the VW world 😁. Actually loved that car.

Jetta(2).jpg
Jetta(4).jpg
Jetta(8).jpg

Jetta(3).jpg

I’ll admit - I was in middle school when those arrived (2004 is when the GLI ditched the VR6 in favor of the 1.8T 6-speed?) and that puts me in danger of real nostalgia. My dad did the floorplan loans for the local VW dealership growing up, so we stopped by the dealership pretty often. I remember being unreasonably into those GLIs and the 337 edition and 20th anniversary GTIs. Not a performance car by any stretch, but the coolest factory trim if you share my taste!

Nostalgia is dangerous…I have been tempted to spend way too much on a 337 or similar. I don’t really car shop because I don’t like feeding the “more!” machine or toiling on the hedonic treadmill. BUT, a clean GLI/GTI from that era is on the short list of very odd cars to have on a short list lol.



Glad I stumbled upon this thread!

Love the classic VW's...I have a small fleet of my own, even a silver mk1 gti.... :cool:

Love your MK4s! What are your plans for the MK1?

I truly have zero loyalty to the VW brand / German cars / whatever whatsoever. MK1s - certainly, these I keep coming back to due to the complete package. But the MK7s are just a result of considering the options.

And a teaser…need to catch up on some posts this weekend:

Back on the road!
06781BA0-6FFB-4E70-B740-B6870CB8AC3A.jpeg

And this is paid for but conspicuously absent from my garage
02E778C9-21B6-4251-810F-7D6ADFDBDF7F.jpeg
 

fouckhest

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 24, 2013
Messages
1,795
Location
Greer, SC
Love your MK4s! What are your plans for the MK1?

I truly have zero loyalty to the VW brand / German cars / whatever whatsoever. MK1s - certainly, these I keep coming back to due to the complete package. But the MK7s are just a result of considering the options.

And a teaser…need to catch up on some posts this weekend:

Back on the road!

And this is paid for but conspicuously absent from my garage

Thanks man, when I read your comment about the 337 I was on my way to flickr to grab a photo, but guessing you saw it lol....

mk1 was supposed to be a "tinker project" like yours when I started my masters a few years ago....pulled it out of a buddies back yard that was never going to do anything with it...a part out project to help a buddy in cali fell into my lap...when I finally got around to digging into the mk1 I quickly realized that the 10+yrs of sitting in my buddies back yard (not on concrete) had taken its tole...the floors are gone and it has some other battle scars....I really want a "big fab project" so the plan is to build a tube chassis berg cup car based on miata suspension geometry. I actually have "claim" on an nb miata up in MI, I need find the time to go up there and get it so it is in my possession....

Nice work on getting yours back on the road, they are such fun little cars to drive! congrats on the lift, you will love it, i really want a 4-post for ease of parking/stacking cars

pics of my poor friend
52385773288_a7f1fe8f63_c.jpgUntitled by fouckhest, on Flickr
 

nicholam77

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 18, 2016
Messages
2,652
Location
Minneapolis, MN
Here was my dabble in the VW world 😁. Actually loved that car.

Jetta(2).jpg

Love the Mk4 GLI! Still looks good 20 yrs later! Nice color, too.
 
OP
F

fourmotioneer

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
198
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
Bel-Metric knowingly putting customers and their families at risk of fire

I used to source all of my fuel hose, clamps, fasteners etc. from Bel-metric. Recently I found out that they are aware of fuel hose issues, yet have not contacted customers about the risk, nor offered refunds, all while acknowledging in writing that the fuel hoses - which are rated for ethanol - have an issue with common E10 fuel. Absolutely unsafe. I have been put in 3 situations with major fuel leaks and one with a small fire because of them.

Incident 1: In fall 2021 I smelled fuel coming from under the hood of my Alfa, which received new fuel hoses in spring of 2018. I noticed that a 7.5mm fuel hose from Bel-Metric had deteriorated to the point of leaking fuel. It was cracked beneath the braided cloth and completely saturated. No exposure to exhaust radiation, just standard underwood temps

Incident 2: This spring I went to a Cars and Coffee and met a cool GJer, who I won't tag just to keep him out of this post. My car smelled like fuel at the show, and I initially misattributed this to fuel tank venting. Looking under the car, there was a fuel hose drip at the fuel filter. Hmm. Hoses were replaced in 2015 and the car is stored indoors. 8 year fuel hose life? The original Alfa Romeo hoses weren't dripping and they were installed in 1988...I had only replaced them out of an abundance of caution. Something is up here...

Incident 3: A week later, as I am driving into town to go on a run, I get a fuel smell, and a minute later smoke is pouring out from under the hood. I pull into an apartment complex (with space away from buildings in case the car goes up) but into a parking space for some dignity. Of course I keep a fire extinguisher in the car with me just in case. Get out and the smoke subsides to reveal another 2018 vintage hose to the cold start injector completely shot and leaking.

70372355040__04D939CE-F7DE-42F0-927A-C0D20C8BC19D.jpeg

IMG_5430.jpeg


IMG_5439.jpeg

I contacted Bel-Metric, and they admitted to the hose not performing as advertised:

Screen Shot 2023-05-27 at 7.17.33 AM.png

I tried for a week or so to get Matt on the phone and it was clear that he was avoiding me. The office made up stories about him being on vacation etc. Finally they relented and he just told me that he had been advised not to speak with me. Unfortunately, his email is damning, and even worse, they aren't notifying customers of the risk even though a friend called them about the same issue and they offered him a full refund no questions asked. Ugh, I don't want a refund - I wan't them to let people know that if they have installed this hose, it will leak when exposed to typical fuel in the US
 

RoninB4

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2020
Messages
3,458
Location
Under My House
Bel-Metric knowingly putting customers and their families at risk of fire

I wan't them to let people know that if they have installed this hose, it will leak when exposed to typical fuel in the US

-I should consider component shortcomings like this to be commonplace (I consider it failure) in manufacturing yet I am still greatly disappointed in companies ignoring the potential danger (that were likely known) to consumers. It astounds me that a company will willingly risk destroying a reputation that it worked hard for in favor of quarterly profits. If there's any evidence a company has knowingly marketed a sub-standard product I'll never buy from them again. Thanks to the OP for alerting an issue Bel-Metric was hoping we wouldn't notice.

Offering a refund of purchase price suggests a corporate mindset that borders on criminal negligence given the potential of the result.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom