Above 1200 Sq/FT 86's 20HP shop

86turbodsl · May 31, 2015

Well, i figured it's been long enough, i should probably start a thread on my workshop. Thanks to Strouty, who encouraged me to share. I think we share the same challenges, so it's been good to see the progress he's made on his shop.

With that out of the way, lets start this thing.

This thread will be both historical and ongoing in it's scope.

I started building the shop in 2002. There was no garage journal then. I had to wing a lot of this, since i didn't have much help and no comparisons other than the shop my dad and i built many years ago. He's since added on to it now, and i've incorporated some lessons learned from both those builds into the shop. I've also made some mistakes and learned a lot from the good folks here.

So, we moved to a 10 acre parcel in 1999 in South Central Michigan. It was completely bare land. An old corn field if you will. We bought a cheap trailer to throw on it and live in while we built a house. Made a lot of repairs and improvements to it to keep it livable enough while we built.

I convinced the wife we should build a pole barn, we could keep materials and such in it while we built. She agreed and we made plans to build in the summer of 2002. I bought a package from a pole barn vendor in Niles, MI and we rounded up a lot of friends and relatives to help build.

The shop is 40 x 64 x 14.

Some of the early pictures are sparse, i didn't have much for a camera that far back. I hauled in a couple hundred yards of sand, leveled the ground and had a friend over to help me drill holes and drop in poles. We used a 3pt post hole digger on my Oliver.

Once the poles were all pretty much set, we installed girts and as much framework as we could. Then we planned a party to get trusses up and as much other work as possible. I think we had about 15-20 friends over and i hired a crane to get the trusses hung. I had about 2 guys on each side of the trusses and one crazy friend who walked on the center of the trusses to nail on stabilizers. We didn't have those nice roll up stabilizers at that time.

We got the trusses all set and stabilized just in time to avoid the huge thunderstorm that hit. Everybody filed into the trailer for pizza and pop.

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To be continued...

NOTE:

I just noticed the photobucket disabled all my old photo links. I'll move them over to my server eventually, but for now, sorry folks. The latest stuff is on a different host, so it'll be ok if you were already following along.

Strouty · May 31, 2015

Love it!

86turbodsl · May 31, 2015

After the rainstorm, everyone headed home and i was left with a basic structure. I had designed a track system using 2x4 and pullies with a cart, i had the wife and neighbor's wife put sheets of osb on the cart, and then pulled the rope attached to a 2x4 away from the shop and the cart came up to me, where i grabbed the sheet and put in a stack on the roof for attaching. I don't have any photos of that i think. Got the barn all sheeted, then spent all of september on the roof attaching shingles. This was before the late time changes, so by the time i got home each night, i would shingle in the dark using 500 w halogen lights up on the roof with me. To top it off, i didn't have electricity out there yet, so i had a generator hammering away while i roofed. And the compressor running the nail gun didn't start on it's own with the generator, so i usually had to climb down and start the compressor manually every few shingles. I guess i was younger back then...

So here's a few photos of after the roof was done and i started hanging steel.

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Here's my little guy playing around in the rubble.

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86turbodsl · May 31, 2015

After i got the steel all up, i worked on the garage door. I originally ordered a single 16w x 12h sectional insulated garage door. It was decent enough quality, but i had a lot of problems with the door not wanting to open and the springs holding the door up had a lot of friction. The friction would end up being the undoing of the door. More on that later.

Here's some shots of the finished structure with doors.

to be continued...

86turbodsl · May 31, 2015

After i got the basic structure up, it stayed like that for a winter while we saved up the $6500 for the concrete to put the floor in.

While we saved, i considered lots of layouts and heating schemes. About 4-5 months of the year here in Michigan, it's too cold to be an effective worker in the shop without heat. A friend i used to work with and still keep in touch with is also a gearhead/car guy and pushed me to look into radiant heating. I dug into it and after looking at it decided it was right for me.

So in the spring, we had nearly 600 yards of sand delivered as a base for the concrete.

I leveled it out and spent a lot of time compacting in lifts.

Then I had a lot of 2" Dow styrofoam delivered and put down a vapor barrier, the foam, and 6" mesh down to tie the tubing to.

The empty spot in the insulation is where i left it out so i could get 6" of concrete and no tubing for a future lift.

Layout for the tubing was 12" on center, 250' loops, tightened spacing on the outside of the building. 8 circuits, all 250'.

Next, we had the concrete contractor do the thing they do best. I had to yank some sheets on the sides of the building to get mud to the back so they didn't have to wheelbarrow so much.

to be continued...

PugetDude · May 31, 2015

Subscribed!
This is going to be a good build.

don long · May 31, 2015

Interesting
We always start construction by pouring a slab first then building walls on the concrete in So Cal.

Your building is a nice looking structure. And my hat goes off to you for your DIY approach. Will be looking for more shots to see how you filled it up

One question
In the shot with the foam down it looks like you blocked out one section.
What are your plans for that section?

Don

86turbodsl · Jun 1, 2015

don long said:
Interesting
We always start construction by pouring a slab first then building walls on the concrete in So Cal.

Your building is a nice looking structure. And my hat goes off to you for your DIY approach. Will be looking for more shots to see how you filled it up

One question
In the shot with the foam down it looks like you blocked out one section.
What are your plans for that section?

Don

That's where the lift goes. I wanted a full 6" of concrete under the lift, but without the cost of 6" of concrete the full slab. I know most lifts are rated for 4"-4.5" concrete, but wanted just a little more for peace of mind.

OldSoldier · Jun 1, 2015

I look forward to seeing your progress. So far so good!

OJ Bartley · Jun 1, 2015

Wow, that's a lot of concrete. Great start to the project, and great to see your little guy getting involved too!

Banjorear · Jun 1, 2015

Wow, congrats! Looks like a great space. Officially jealous.

86turbodsl · Jun 1, 2015

Ok, so after the floor was poured and dried out, I waited a couple weeks and started loading things into the shop. In the back corner near the pex for the radiant flooring, i had put plumbing drains in the floor for a toilet and shower. The plan was to put a mezzanine and office in the shop for a place to go and work on office activities, since there wasn't room in the house trailer for such things. I built a 7' tall office area and boiler room/bathroom area. I did not put any actual bathroom into the space because the drain to the septic tank was not installed. It was for future use.

These photos show the build on that portion.

Strouty · Jun 2, 2015

This is like watching a TV show that you enjoy, I can't wait for the next episode!

86turbodsl · Jun 2, 2015

Lol. I will try to keep you entertained for a while Strouty!

86turbodsl · Jun 2, 2015

Ok, so i continued to work on the mezzanine/office, installing drywall, painting floors, and moving office type stuff into it.

Meanwhile, the other areas of the shop started to accumulate items and take up floor space. A parts truck, a friends Miata, lots of car parts, and i think this is where i started to go wrong. I didn't take the time and spend the money to complete the interior walls and insulation, NOR put up shelves to keep things organized and off the floor.

I struggle with organisation mightily. It doesn't come naturally to me.

As the shop filled up, It became more and more difficult to complete large tasks due to the amount of work required to move items around, compounded by the fact that a lot of my projects included VERY heavy equipment, or non-running vehicles or equipment.

This "clutter factor" is responsible for a great deal of stress and a reluctance to come into the shop to work and / or improve the situation.

As things would come up for repair around the property, i would shove things over and clear enough space to work, and the stress of working in the space would pile up and eventually drive me out after the project completed. Being tired out by the clutter just compounded the problem. And it continued to get worse. I'd see projects or things i wanted to buy and the good deals would come home and i'd just shove them in somehow. And it continued to get worse. I think this is a sort of dysfunctional disease actually. I don't know if it's hoarding or not, i don't need to buy 10 of everything, but good deals are very hard to pass up.

To be continued....

Strouty · Jun 2, 2015

Impatiently waiting.

Autorotica · Jun 2, 2015

Organization doesnt come naturally to most of us. I bought some dimensional lumber and built shelves along the long length of my building to prevent anything that can be on the shelves up and off the floor.

Thanks for sharing your build and keep it coming!
Chris

86turbodsl · Jun 3, 2015

Next i turned my attention to the heating, not really intending to run it very much before the walls were done and insulation was complete, but more to prove it out. I'd never engineered such a complex system before, but it was interesting to me as an engineer. I studied primarily the works of John Seigenthaler, who was kind of a pioneer in new ways of implementing hydronics. The system i designed was a variable speed injection system, and the shop was all one big zone, so theoretically, it was a very simple system. I had pressurized the loops during concrete pour, so everything seems to be ok during fill and operation. I ended up running about 150 gallons of diesel through it over the winter of 2004 2005, over a period of about 2 months. As i still did not have insulation, there was no point to continue to operate, even at a low level. I figured that once walls were up, the work would be done and i could just flip the switch and have heat.

Manifolds were built from parts from Menards

This is the secondary loop coming together.

The primary loop consists of a Weil McLain boiler purchased second hand from the UP, and the air scoop, and water level device.

The pump to the left is the injection pump. Its job is to inject smaller quantities of hot water into the secondary loop to meet the target temperature.

The controller running the system is a Honeywell AQ775 (i think) outdoor reset controller. This controller has a temp sensor which controls the set temp of the secondary loop with respect to the outdoor temp. The purpose of this is to try to prevent the swings in indoor temp as the outdoor temp changes. This is important because of the high mass of the slab. I now use this principle in my house, and it works very very well. No high mass radiant slab should be installed without this feature if comfort is desired.

Here you can see the boiler running at temp.

Now this is a bit before the price of diesel fuel/fuel oil had started to skyrocket. As the price began to spike in 2006-2008, i started to investigate waste oil burning.
I actually did build a waste oil conversion beckett burner. Using an air nozzle, compressed air and a level tank, i tested some burns with the existing boiler. I found that the burns were not successful with the very very short chamber length of the weil mclain boiler. There's only about 9" between burner head and back wall. The result was smoke and lots of it. The waste oil didn't have time to burn before being snuffed out on the back wall. I abandoned the idea with this boiler.

I've actually started building a Moscone style boiler, also known as a Bantam Moscone boiler, a design pretty much unknown in the Midwest, but popular in the Maine area. It's claim to fame is that the burner is vertical down, and the burn chamber is very long. Mine is going to be about 36" in height.
this project is not yet complete. To be continued...

86turbodsl · Jun 3, 2015

To attempt to get some of the parts off the floor, i started to build racks from 1" angle iron. I built them too large, they use full 4x8 sheets of osb as shelving. The results is i can't put really heavy things on it very easy. There's a considerable amount of parts up here, mostly Fairlane parts, some Ford truck parts, a lot of diesel ****** and tempo parts (anyone want to buy?) and some tractor parts.

These racks all went up on the mezzanine along with a lot of house stuff. This was before we started building the house.

I continued to accumulate stuff in the shop proper, and also took on a few projects, such as rebuilding a 1978 Suzuki GS850 from a box of parts, reconditioning a lot of a diesel Yanmar GT14 lawnmower (still not complete) and parting out a Ford truck.

This is right about when we started to build the house. The spring of 2007 was when we started. Right about when we started to hear about the housing market having trouble. Perfect. Just perfect. We were already commited.

To be continued....

Strouty · Jun 3, 2015

I have found that depth is a killer for shelves and cabinets. I try and make them so that they are only one container deep. I use rubbermaid totes with a lot of my storage. The only time I like deeper shelves is when I am using pallets.

86turbodsl · Jun 3, 2015

Strouty, i agree with you. I didn't have the experience in storage when i built these. I have a problem with the a little is good, more is better mantra. I'm working to break the habit...

Strouty · Jun 3, 2015

86turbodsl said:
Strouty, i agree with you. I didn't have the experience in storage when i built these. I have a problem with the a little is good, more is better mantra. I'm working to break the habit...

I didn't say that I figured it out on the first try. :thumbup:

I think I am on the 5th or 6th go round now.

86turbodsl · Jun 3, 2015

Well thats encouraging, only 4 more times before i get it right....

Strouty · Jun 3, 2015

With the help of this forum, you should be able to do it in 2.

86turbodsl · Jun 4, 2015

After I started building the house and collecting materials, I also decided i should upgrade my toolset as well, to be able to pull off a lot of these projects, and i discovered old tools. I started with a table saw, a mid 80's Powermatic PM66. Really nice saw. 5hp 3 phase.

Followed up with a few more, a Yuba radial arm saw, an old Delta 6" jointer with bathtub knobs, a 12" disc sander, and a Yager 11" planer.

I used the smaller tools for a while, and figured out that i was running them on the ragged edges. so in my usual overkill fashion, i started buying bigger tools. First was a 16" Delta radial saw, followed by a 1920's Crescent 24" planer, and a 16" Newman jointer.

Followed up with a big Beach shaper.

Also found a low dollar Bridgeport 2HP variable speed head, and a 10" dayton grinder.

Continued to cram the stuff into the shop, along with lots of motorcycles and parts, car parts, and house materials. 1500 board feet of cherry for cabinets, drywall, plywood, steel, etc etc etc.

I managed to complete the house, but it took 2+ years. I was not productive because of all this clutter.

And STILL i had no completed walls, no insulation, and no storage beyond the mezzanine and it's inadequate storage.

To be continued....

Strouty · Jun 4, 2015

I like overkill too. I would rather buy something bigger or better than I need, because then I know it will still work the next time I need it. Some of the smaller cheaper stuff is now considered disposable and I just don't understand that thought process.

86turbodsl · Jun 4, 2015

After using the big sectional door for a while, it had become damaged by some issues with the track and friction. While using the operator one day, the top section was ripped apart due to friction on the tracks. I also had a certain someone who messed up the bottom section by driving into it. So i patched it up as best i could and continued to use it for a while.

then I ran across bifolddoors.com, the Schwiess door folks. I gave their information a hard look and some searches turned up that people have copied that design of door. As my door was quite damaged, rather than spend $1500 to replace it and have the same issues, i decided to build one myself and eliminate the overhead tracks which i disliked.

so the door was born.

I've got more photos somewhere, and i'll edit this and add them when i find them.

Started in the fall of 2013, and dragged through the winter without sheeting, and completed in the spring of 2014.

Design is 2" x 1/8" square tubing, with 5 of the biggest hinges i could get, welded at the top tube. I also plan to add 3 more hinges to resist lateral forces when open. they will be tied back into the building to support the moment forces on the door when it's open.

The opener will be a worm gearbox driven by a single phase motor and lifting 3" nylon straps. Controls will be by PLC.

so now i have a big door, that doesn't open yet, and a shop filled with stuff.

Something's gotta give....

To be continued...

86turbodsl · Jun 4, 2015

Strouty said:
I like overkill too. I would rather buy something bigger or better than I need, because then I know it will still work the next time I need it. Some of the smaller cheaper stuff is now considered disposable and I just don't understand that thought process.

I totally get that Strouty, that's part of why i started buying "lifetime" tools. Investment, not throwaway. I think we think alike here.

86turbodsl · Jun 4, 2015

Ok, i think this pretty much brings us current. Now let's take a look at the current state of the shop, and the future plans.

After i built the shop, and added the mezzanine, i disliked it after a while. It was always dark up there, and the office was no longer needed after the house was built. So the office was mainly where the stereo lived, and lots of magazines and manuals that didn't move inside. I also disliked the 20ft of space it took up. I also didn't like hauling heavy parts up the stairs to the mezzanine, and started to look at alternate ways to get things off the floor and get rid of the mezzanine.

I started this thread :

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153639

Where i was looking at making a bridge crane along with side storage as part of the bridge rails. After much consideration and looking at how much this would cost, I listened to my fellow GJ friends and decided that pallet racking on the sides of the shop makes a lot more sense.

To be continued...

86turbodsl · Jun 4, 2015

So, since i had decided to purchase pallet racking, and eliminate the mezz, i started looking for pallet racking on local craigslists. I found a guy with some beams for very very cheap, and a material handling company in Detroit that had the uprights i needed, 36" x 18'. I would cut down the uprights to 12' and save the cutoffs to make more uprights. I'll probably still have to buy more beams, but this should get me well on the way to getting the floor cleaned up.

So i brought the beams home, then made a trip to the SERIOUS HOOD in Detroit. Brought the uprights back in the truck - 18' long!!!

The question was how to get this all done with all the clutter.

I had gotten 4 nice vinyl windows from a buddy a few years ago, and never installed them, they had been languishing in the office since then. Since i was going to be erecting pallet rack, which would be ridiculous to move, the walls need to be done before it goes up, INCLUDING paint. Since i only want to do this once, (there's that perfectionism again), i decided to complete the walls starting in the south east corner of the building.

First i had to clear the area so i could work. Shoving more stuff away from the wall, i ended up here:

Pulling the wall apart, we can see what framework is there:

I pull it apart, and down to the outside girts:

Then before i can pull outside sheeting, i need to clear the weeds and trees that had grown up.

And pull the steel:

Framing for a 60" window:

And installed:

Steel mostly hung, all done in 1 LONG day.

I finished the steel between the raindrops the next day.
Waited 2 days for the rain to stop, and started on the other window in the corner. Plan was to replace that window with one of the new ones, since the old window was in poor shape, and the framing didn't look good anymore.

To be continued...

Strouty · Jun 4, 2015

The 80s called, they are looking for ford escorts!

My buddy in high school had an ****** GT, he was the envy of, er, well, no one. Are they at least all diesel or something? :headscrat

86turbodsl · Jun 4, 2015

Ding ding ding!!! Yes, they are all diesels. I can't even remember the last time i saw one on the road. these are all too rusty to drive anymore. But the engines are mostly ok. I really need to part them out and scrap them.

the story is, i was driving a diesel tempo years ago, and i found a guy who had a bunch of them and wanted to get out of them. We spent a long weekend dragging them all back from Indiana. I got my money's worth out of them, but they need to move on down the road.

Strouty · Jun 4, 2015

I have a small collection of diesel suburbans, so I understand.

bullnerd · Jun 4, 2015

Good luck buddy.

OldSoldier · Jun 4, 2015

I think once your racking is up you'll finally be able to breathe some. Keep at it! Just remember to take a break from accumulating more stuff for the time being. There will always be deals down the road.

PugetDude · Jun 4, 2015

86turbodsl said:
Ok, i think this pretty much brings us current. Now let's take a look at the current state of the shop, and the future plans.

Was the NTSB able to determine the cause of the crash? :wtf:

Strouty · Jun 4, 2015

You guys are great, well, except bullnerd.

86turbodsl · Jun 5, 2015

PugetDude said:
Was the NTSB able to determine the cause of the crash?

Good one.

Joe13 · Jun 5, 2015

I am subscribing. Clutter drives me mad, but I just completed building my own house and my bay of the attached 2-car looks like your shop. That's without the stuff still in a 10x25 storage unit. You are definitely making progress! just keep chipping away. the biggest trick is to focus on a little spot, not the whole building. If you can do that. you will be surprised what you accomplish!

bullnerd · Jun 5, 2015

Strouty said:
You guys are great, well, except bullnerd.

I dont follow, that was 100% genuine.

Above 1200 Sq/FT 86's 20HP shop

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