Ducted split system brands

Diesel Dan · Apr 23, 2017

Looking for some feedback on 14/15 seer split heat pump systems with electric heat backup. We are looking at two 1.5 ton systems or possibly two AHUs run off one condensing unit.

I would like to stay with domestic manufactured brands if possible.

What brands do you have recent experience with?
Common failures, all brands break at some point.
How do they handle warranty work?

LS6 Tommy · Apr 23, 2017

Mitsubishi/Fujitsu are my two favorites, in no particular order. IF you buy a Fujitsu on line, there is NO warranty, period. They are strict about it. IF you get it done by a certified installer, they are great with warranty, even though they are pretty damn solid. Good luck finding any domestically made minisplit...

Tommy

Diesel Dan · Apr 23, 2017

Currently I'm getting quotes from installers but curious on brands.

Not looking at a ductless minisplit but but a ducted split system with condensing unit outside and A-coils inside.

theoldwizard1 · Apr 23, 2017

Diesel Dan said:
Not looking at a ductless minisplit but but a ducted split system with condensing unit outside and A-coils inside.

There are literally DOZENS to choose from. Just look at the AC units outside your neighbors house. They all make heat pumps. Carrier is good, but I won't say it is the best.

As far as "domestic", I can guarantee you that most of the components inside are NOT made in the US, regardless of the brand.

P.S. Better hope you don't have to use those heat strips much ! $$$$ :eyecrazy:

brewchief · Apr 23, 2017

Are you looking for a bare bones basic system or something with more features?

I work for a Lennox dealer so it's what I'm most familiar with, there would be several options for air handlers and several options for the heat pump itself.

Lennox has Merit, Elite and Signature lines, Merit is basic equipment built with a price point in mind, at least some of it is made in Mexico, we install very few Merit line furnaces but we do install a fair amount of the A/C units. Installed properly they are relatively trouble free but are a little noisier then the higher end units.

Elite series will be a quieter unit with more features and USA assembled.

Signature line gets the most features, if you want a communicating unit that will give you wifi control as well as advanced humidity control then this is what you would want, you could pair a Signature line air handler and Elite heat pump to get a very nice system at a better price point then if you go top of the line for everything.

Any system you look at needs to be a matched system, there should be an AHRI number to prove what that combo is capable of doing.

Most of what we sell comes with a 5 year parts warranty and 1 year labor, as a dealer we register it online and parts goes to 10 years to the original owner, as a dealer we will then provide up to 10 years labor warranty as long as the customer has us service it every year.

Many other companies also do a 5 year that turns into 10 warranty, just make sure you have proof that it was registered, we run into issues with other brands that others installed that never got registered every year.

Installing contractor is a big deal, the best equipment will live a short life if installed incorrectly. Some brands have poor support in an area so even though it's good equipment if it breaks parts are hard to come by.

zmaxmotorsports · Apr 23, 2017

Yep go for the warranty and ease of getting parts over a brand name.

yeldogt · Apr 23, 2017

Install is often more important vs equipment .... especially true with builder basic stuff.

Carrier makes great zoning.

I have never heard of two conventional evaporators off one compressor ...... are you sure you need two 1.5's ?? can you sone a 3T

Diesel Dan · Apr 23, 2017

theoldwizard1 said:
Just look at the AC units outside your neighbors house.
Not that simple. Most people have "package" units.

As far as "domestic", I can guarantee you that most of the components inside are NOT made in the US, regardless of the brand.
True but not all internal components come from the same suppliers either.

P.S. Better hope you don't have to use those heat strips much ! $$$$
Hoping we won't with entire structure covered in 2" of closed cell spray foam finished off with open cell after that. Should have R30 in walls and R40+ in ceiling.

brewchief said:
Are you looking for a bare bones basic system or something with more features?
Yes, not looking for bells and whistles. No need for a "connected" house since we don't even have reliable cell phones at the property.
I work for a Lennox dealer so it's what I'm most familiar with, there would be several options for air handlers and several options for the heat pump itself.

Elite series will be a quieter unit with more features and USA assembled.
Any thoughts on higher grade internals with this line?

yeldogt said:
Carrier makes great zoning.

I have never heard of two conventional evaporators off one compressor ...... are you sure you need two 1.5's ?? can you sone a 3T
Multiple A coils(evaporator) and one condenser/compressor are done in commercial, automotive and some residential

The "shouse" living quarter are two story, slab on grade, with 960 SQFT per floor, TTL of 1920. The stairwell connecting the levels will have door(s) to separate the levels for individual control. Due to the location of the staircase and floor truss webbing design ducting is an issue.

My thoughts on using 2 separate 1.5T systems is 1)duct work 2)simplicity 3)redundant backup. By simplicity I mean 2 basic systems where a single condensing unit feeding multiple AHUs would need a variable speed compressor, special valving or ??? Redundancy would be in the form of if one unit had a compressor failure the whole house would not be without some form of HVAC.

Now that I decided to spray foam to the roof deck instead of bottom truss cords I will have conditioned space in the attic and will have to re-evaluate if I can get ductwork to both floors easier. :headscrat

So maybe I'll be able to zone a 2.5-3.0T unit.

Thanks for the help.

mrpizza · Apr 24, 2017

Where I work we sell Trane and Carrier. Both have a 10 year all parts warranty, some of the Trane higher end stuff has a 12 year compressor warranty. I am about to start a build, I am going with Carrier in mine. Typically has a smaller equipment footprint compared to Trane. I like the features in what I am getting, the 5-stage AC unit. Boiler radiant heat floors with a Central Boiler 6048.

Diesel Dan · Apr 24, 2017

Has anyone had experience with Westinghouse units?
Had a local independent installer make a bid using them.

theoldwizard1 · Apr 24, 2017

Diesel Dan said:
True, but not all internal components come from the same suppliers either.

You might be surprised !

A few years ago, one sub-supplier changed the formulation of oil that is used inside all HVAC compressors without permission. This affected DOZENS of brands because they all used pumps from the same supplier.

Diesel Dan · Apr 24, 2017

theoldwizard1 said:
You might be surprised !

Right you are.
So the 5 main manufacturers appear to be
-Trane: also American Standard
-Carrier corp: Carrier, Bryant, Day & Night, Payne, Arcoaire, Comfortmaker, Heil, KeepRite, and Tempstar.
-Goodman mfg: Goodman, Daikin, Amana, and Lincoln
-Rheem mfg: Rheem, Ruud, and Weatherking
-Nortek Global mfg: Maytag, Westinghouse, Broan, Frigidaire, Nutone, and Mammoth

Then smaller individual makes like Gibosn, whirlpool, York.

Now to try and figure out which make has better local support.

Also going to look into if my temp/humidity swings will be better served with a inverter driven compressor or two stage unit. Well the inverter should be better but at this point I don't know any cost figures to compare.

yeldogt · Apr 25, 2017

First -- Just, because they have two evaporators in some vehicles (my SAAB had two) .. and also commercial -- does not = residential. It's not going to happen in a typical split residential system.

Mitsubishi now makes a conventional air handler "looking" unit that ties into the VS multi head systems -- it's basically a high static pressure blower (not to be confused with the smaller hidden units) They are also expensive -- you can have two of those connected to one compressor --- I was in a house a few weeks ago with an up/ down setup with two units.

Once you enter the VS systems -- you are entering the most expensive line with any manufacture.

Do you currently have ductwork? ... make sure the load is properly calculated with the spray foam ... it greatly changes the formula. Otherwise you will be greatly oversized on the AC. And you are correct on the humidity -- if you have high humidity .. you want to make sure the system is not oversized. The VS or multi speed units can run on low and remove the humidity without overcooling. My Carrier 5 speed unit is often running in 1st stage -- in the summer to remove humidity and in winter to circulate warm air.

I'm currently debating Trane products vs Carrier. I have been using Carrier products for the past 10+ years with great results -- my current preferred installer in another state uses Trane. I'm still leaning towards Carrier.

Carrier/ Bryant .. Trane/ American Standard -- it's all just name changing on the box at the upper end. All the manufactures have various lines .. the cheaper units normally don't have the highest efficiencies -- best controls or all the items needed for the quietest operation.

The two speed units work great if the capacities fit the project -- the lower speed 2nd stage is not a big drop with some manufacturers -- that's a factor in the decision.

Carrier makes a 5 speed that I have used -- it's a nice compromise between the 2 speed products and going to a full VS.

I think you will not be happy with the price -- even the two speed units are expensive. No one makes a bare bones VS system.

PCMusicGuy · Apr 25, 2017

Daikin recently built a huge plant/warehouse out near my neck of the woods. I've heard good things about them and obvious they have some local support. If I turn up some information I'll share.

yeldogt · Apr 25, 2017

PCMusicGuy said:
Daikin recently built a huge plant/warehouse out near my neck of the woods. I've heard good things about them and obvious they have some local support. If I turn up some information I'll share.

They bought Goodman -- Goodman bought Amana previously and used the name on the top line.

Goodman actually makes some decent products -- they sell to anybody .. so every hack buys Goodman. I think Amana is only sold through distributors (it is near me).

They have a good warranty -- Daikin is huge and was in the forefront of the mini split development ... they were the only one I would encounter years ago in Japan.

Diesel Dan · Apr 25, 2017

yeldogt said:
First -- Just, because they have two evaporators in some vehicles (my SAAB had two) .. and also commercial -- does not = residential. It's not going to happen in a typical split residential system.
Thanks, this is some of the things I'm working through. We went to a home remodel show in Nashville and talked with a HVAC co. and the designer knew what I was talking about. Thought they did offer a residential unit but can't recall the company.

Do you currently have ductwork? ... make sure the load is properly calculated with the spray foam ... it greatly changes the formula. Otherwise you will be greatly oversized on the AC. And you are correct on the humidity -- if you have high humidity .. you want to make sure the system is not oversized. The VS or multi speed units can run on low and remove the humidity without overcooling. My Carrier 5 speed unit is often running in 1st stage -- in the summer to remove humidity and in winter to circulate warm air.
No ductwork, still at rough framing stage. Working on getting building ready for the first 2" layer of closed cell foam to seal it up. Then after wiring is done 5" of open cell. That 5 speed sounds nice, will look for a carrier dealer and get a quote.

I think you will not be happy with the price -- even the two speed units are expensive. No one makes a bare bones VS system.
Time will tell on cost. So far only have two bids for two 1.5 ton systems.
Trane 14 seer, $15,625--15 Seer $17K
Independent installer using westinghouse, $9300

Thanks, Dan

Ohmthis · Apr 25, 2017

Diesel Dan, can I ask you some questions as I make some assumptions. I assume you are looking for an ultra efficient home? You want to get the most out of your HVAC? Here's my questions. Have you thought about your ROI? If I buy a 80% furnace and it averages $600 dollars a year to heat, but it cost $1000. Now I have a 98% modulating furnace that averages $300 dollars a year to heat, and cost $5000. Each have a life span of 10-15 years. Lets just say 10 years. The 80% will cost $6000 in heat over its life span. The 98% will cost $3000. With the cost of equipment the 80% cost you $7000 while the 98% cost $8000. Most people think that the more efficient equipment will pay for themselves, but rarely come true. There is a middle ground somewhere, you'll just have to figure that out. Don't forget some fresh air being brought into the house. A house that tight will need some. As far as the equipment goes, they all have had problems and they will. Find a good installer with great service. The trane and carrier products have a lot of proprietary parts. Which make them more expensive to build, and repair. Just wanted to add that. Hope this further adds to the confusion.

yeldogt · Apr 26, 2017

How much is the second layer of open foam costing vs just using batts -- After 2" of foam the payback drops. I'm just wondering what the cost of the guy comping back -- setting up -- spraying the foam.

I did a flash of 2" closed cell and batt in NJ with great results -- I'm doing a straight 4" of closed in my new build to keep it simple.

The new VS equipment is not all about saving money -- yes, they cost less to operate ... It's about the comfort they provide. Many times they don't pay for themselves in energy savings over the equipments expected life. Unless you live with one, it's hard to understand how well they work and the changes they can have .......especially noticeable when you revamp an uncomfortable house with one that's been property designed/ installed.

Most people do the math -- and say "what am I getting?".

Without getting too deep into it -- most systems are oversized and the ductwork is undersized. Installers don't want someone to be hot on the hottest day or cold on the coldest day -- so they put in systems that may only have to hit those number once every 10 years. Most people don't live in LV or upper Maine -- where the extremes require different equipment. They have a system that turns on and off ... on and off ... all day long.

The VS systems -- can ramp up and down matching the output needed -- all the while circulating the air .... with zoning the systems can constantly change fan speed and output so no room ever gets too hot or cold.

Dan -- I went with the Carrier 5 speed for a couple of reasons -- it was cheaper vs the Greenspeed by a couple K ....It was able to run down to 25% (so my 3T unit became a 1T when running on 1st stage) .. it hit all the cold numbers I needed for the HP side of the equation ... all the while being silent w/ the same zoning controls of the Greenspeed. These are 15k systems -- not cheap.

Also, most of the companies no longer provide full warranties w/labor (10 year) -- it's parts warranty after the first with a third party labor agreement. I believe Goodman does have a factory labor with the Amana line .. Carrier dropped it a few years back and other's have not for a long time.

Jackfre · Apr 26, 2017

Yours being a new build I would suggest that you include language in the contract that you not pay for the work until the duct leakage is tested and certified at less than 3%. Leaking ducts, especially in a really tight envelope can raise all kinds of problems. The vast majority of homes in the States have very high duct leakage. Between your comfort and your cool high efficiency equipment you had better have a duct system which can support it.
I think you are missing a good thing in not at least comparing cost and performance of a mini-split system.

Diesel Dan · Apr 26, 2017

Ohmthis said:
Diesel Dan, can I ask you some questions as I make some assumptions. I assume you are looking for an ultra efficient home?
Not necessarily. Just trying to build a well insulated, tight house the best I can. FWIW, exterior walls are 2x8s. There is 1/4 fanfold insulation under the vinyl siding not for R-purpose but helps the siding lay better.
Have you thought about your ROI?
In time yes but as of now I don't have enough quotes to compare.
There is a middle ground somewhere, you'll just have to figure that out.
Yup and that's what I'm trying to find.
Don't forget some fresh air being brought into the house.
Yes, an HRV is something I'll look into. I've mentioned it to a couple people and I get the glazed eye treatment.

yeldogt said:
How much is the second layer of open foam costing vs just using batts -- My insulation decision goes along with your description of a VS compressor. It's not all about ROI. The first 2" of CC foam is to seal the structure.
The second OC layer is added insulation, sound deadening and labor savings for me.

The new VS equipment is not all about saving money -- yes, they cost less to operate ... It's about the comfort they provide.
See above. Also why I have extra large footers with 3 rows of rebar,
J-bolts that extend to the footers, core filled walls, 400A power etc.
Without getting too deep into it -- most systems are oversized and the ductwork is undersized.
Seen that myself too often.
The VS systems -- can ramp up and down matching the output needed -- all the while circulating the air .... with zoning the systems can constantly change fan speed and output so no room ever gets too hot or cold.

These are 15k systems -- not cheap.

My first quotes were for dual fuel and heat pump with propane.
Option 1: Bryant 16 SEER- 4 stages heat, (2 heatpump, 2 LPG) 2 stage cool VS comp $44,700
Option 2: Bryant 15 SEER- 3 stages heat (1 heatpump, 2 LPG), 1 stage cool VS, $35,800
Option 3:Bryant 14 SEER, 2 stages heat, one cool, dual split units for $32,700

That was for two 3 ton units! 6 tons A/C capacity for a highly insulated 1920 SQFT structure, slab on grade.

Jackfre said:
Yours being a new build I would suggest that you include language in the contract that you not pay for the work until the duct leakage is tested and certified at less than 3%.
Good idea, thanks.

I think you are missing a good thing in not at least comparing cost and performance of a mini-split system.
Maybe but what is the air filtering performance of a mini-split?
Then there is a condensate drain for every head unit.
I could be wrong but I just don't see proper air movement in a whole house system vs a ducted system.

I'd like to say Thank You! to all the HVAC people that are helping out.
Even if this does not turn into a DIY project I want to make sure I get a decent system at a fair price. Hopefully this thread can help others determine proper HVAC for their builds too. :beer:

yeldogt · Apr 26, 2017

Well -- in a tight home with the correct equipment in many parts of the country 3000sf can be done with a 3T unit. Sounds like you have too much capacity -- who did the figures?

The efficiency of the VS unit is achieved in the upper middle -- so going 4T give you a different capacity.

The new VS systems work so well with zoning and are so flexible -- I would never do two system if one was possible. My Carrier 5 speed was a changed out with the addition of zoning and the 3 head hyper heat was a new install .. with insulation upgrades and removal of the second floor unit in the attic -- it was just under 40k

Ohmthis · Apr 26, 2017

I agree, 6 total tons for roughly 2000sqft is WAY oversized. My last home had blown fiberglass in 2x4 framing with R40 in the attic, great windows and doors and a tight envelope. I heated and cooled 4000 sqft with 4tons, zoned HP with VS propane furnace for back up. It was VERY efficient. I would think with zoning you could get away with 2-2.5 tons. Sometimes with a heat pump it may have to be skewed towards the heat required, but it wouldn't put it grossly over sized for cooling. Did they do a manual j calculation on the building? This is the only real way to know the heat gain/loss of the house and what size equipment is required. Yes have them seal ALL joints (even boots), it's nice to get the air you pay to heat and cool to get to you, not chases and cavities. I myself would look at a 16 seer HP with a 2 stage VS furnace as back up. Possibly 2 stage for the HP, it would depend on cost to me. VS equipment is indeed more for comfort than efficiency, but proper sizing and placement of supply and returns can make a huge difference too. This is fun hypothetically designing and discussing equipment pros and cons. Hope all this is helping out.

theoldwizard1 · Apr 26, 2017

Diesel Dan said:
Now to try and figure out which make has better local support.

and that is probably the MOST IMPORTANT thing !

Jackfre · Apr 26, 2017

Here is some interesting reading.
http://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/TechnicalNotes/NIST.TN.1848.pdf

brewchief · Apr 26, 2017

Some thoughts'
With GOOD duct design and installation a single system with zoning would work fine, this may not be possible do to design of the house but should be at least considered.
You will be running about the same amount of ductwork so that won't change in cost drastically but you may be able to have one higher end system for the same money as two lower grade systems.

If zoning look for a system that will adjust blower speed based on demand rather then one that will need a bypass damper to deal with excess air. Lennox iharmony will do this. I believe carrier has a similar system.

Many of the multi stage and variable capacity units are only available in full ton increments, 2 ton, 3ton, etc, no half sizes. This isn't really a big deal but make sure the duct system is designed accordingly.

Many systems can provide good humidity control without going to a variable capacity unit. We install tons of systems that use a furnace with a variable speed blower(2 stage and modulating)and a single stage A/C, with proper controls these systems provide very indoor humidity control. The thermostats used can slow the blower speed down to allow for colder coil temp and longer run times which will pull a lot more moisture out of the air, if that's not enough they can be set to overcool up to a few degrees to provide even more humidity control. Using those controls with a multi stage or variable capacity unit works even better.

Are you going to use propane for other stuff in the house? If so consider a gas furnace and heat pump combo, it will be cheaper to run IF you are going to spend much time with temps low enough to bring on the backup heat source.

Diesel Dan · Apr 26, 2017

yeldogt said:
Sounds like you have too much capacity -- who did the figures?

One of the largest HVAC installer in the area.

theoldwizard1 said:
and that is probably the MOST IMPORTANT thing !

This is why I went with one of the largest installers but now have my doubts about them.

Ohmthis said:
I would think with zoning you could get away with 2-2.5 tons. Sometimes with a heat pump it may have to be skewed towards the heat required, but it wouldn't put it grossly over sized for cooling.Agreed, it would have electric elements for backup heat. Did they do a manual j calculation on the building? This is the only real way to know the heat gain/loss of the house and what size equipment is required. Yes have them seal ALL joints (even boots), it's nice to get the air you pay to heat and cool to get to you, not chases and cavities. I myself would look at a 16 seer HP with a 2 stage VS furnace as back up. Possibly 2 stage for the HP, it would depend on cost to me. VS equipment is indeed more for comfort than efficiency, but proper sizing and placement of supply and returns can make a huge difference too. This is fun hypothetically designing and discussing equipment pros and cons. Hope all this is helping out.

Absolutely!
One company stated one cold air return(CAR) per floor is all I'd need. I'm requesting 2 CAR per floor. The second floor has 3 bdrm, 2 bath and all have doors. He said one CAR in the hallway is good. When I questioned about all the doors being closed he stated I should have a 2-3" gap at the bottom of the doors. :willy_nil

Nobody has taken enough data to do a manual J, S or D.
I've since went to the ACCA site and downloaded the Speed-sheets for them. When I'll get time to work on them? :dunno:

brewchief said:
Some thoughts'
With GOOD duct design and installation a single system with zoning would work fine, this may not be possible do to design of the house but should be at least considered.
You will be running about the same amount of ductwork so that won't change in cost drastically but you may be able to have one higher end system for the same money as two lower grade systems.
Since I'm still in the rough in phase I'm willing to make concessions.
If I can get a properly sized zoned system to fit in the attic I will make chases and cut appropriate holes for ductwork to reach the first floor. Function before form in some cases.

Are you going to use propane for other stuff in the house? If so consider a gas furnace and heat pump combo, it will be cheaper to run IF you are going to spend much time with temps low enough to bring on the backup heat source.

Was going to use LPG but being 1hr south of Nashville and my insulation I've decided against it. We grew up in Mid-Michigan, lived in NW Wisconsin(-30*F) then NE Ohio.
It don't get cold here and then it's not long anyway.

Ohmthis,
It would be an fun intellectual project if my wife wasn't harping about finishing the house. :lol_hitti

Ohmthis · Apr 26, 2017

"It would be an fun intellectual project if my wife wasn't harping about finishing the house."
Isn't this soooooo true?!?! I believe to get the most out of a system each room with a supply (omit kitchen, bathrooms, and laundry rooms. You don't want smells from these being delivered all over the house) NEEDS a return sized (big deal here) correctly.

Fixin'Stuff · Apr 27, 2017

brewchief said:
Many systems can provide good humidity control without going to a variable capacity unit. We install tons of systems that use a furnace with a variable speed blower(2 stage and modulating)and a single stage A/C, with proper controls these systems provide very indoor humidity control. The thermostats used can slow the blower speed down to allow for colder coil temp and longer run times which will pull a lot more moisture out of the air, if that's not enough they can be set to overcool up to a few degrees to provide even more humidity control. Using those controls with a multi stage or variable capacity unit works even better.

Just a quick OT question about this. Since the compressor is still running at full speed in that setup, wouldn't a system like this make the electric bills much higher? Down here in "The most air conditioned city in America" (And ridiculously humid much of the time) the electric bills can be a real shocker in the summer months. Seems that running the compressor even longer would be a pain in the wallet.

Diesel Dan · Sep 14, 2017

Soooo a little update.
4+ months later the spray foam has been done, cured and seems to do its job well. Even during the hottest weather a window a/c unit on the first floor and a box fan pushing air up the stair case kept the living quarters in the upper 70s.

The mini-split is starting to appeal to us in some aspects so I've been looking into them.
No luck getting manual-Js done, offered to pay places just for that service and I get the "it's included in our package" but I never see the figures.

So, from what I can glean from several quotes for a traditional system is 2-3 total tons of a/c. If I go with a mini-split I figure a 5 zoned system will be required. Planning on a whole home ERV with 3 fan speeds as well.

Playing around with some of the HVAC wholesale websites to see what's out there and this is what I was thinking.
Mitsubishi, outdoor unit 42,000btu, MXZ-5C42NA
-----branch box----PAC-MKA51BC
--wall mount units of sizes 6+6+9+9+12

Home layout:
-first floor has kitchen (14x24), living room (14x24), 1/2 bath and stair well.
-second floor, two bedrooms (10x12), master bdrm (14x24) and two full baths.

Wall mount room sizing:
-two small bdrm on north side get 6k units
-larger master on south side gets 9k
-living room, first floor, north side, 9K
-kitchen first floor, south side, 12K

ERV inlets will be inside bathrooms and one each per common areas on first floor.
-outlets will be bedrooms and one each common areas.

Thoughts, ideas, need to go pound sand?

Trey T · Sep 15, 2017

Oh heck NO w/ the mini-split system!!!!!! The best system for the money is to go w/ the conventional (non-inverter) system. As for brands, I like Goodman and American Standards. I like the AS better because it has the plastic shell at the bottom of the condenser. Pay a bit more and get a 15-16SEER w/ a TXV.

Lately I advocate for rigid duct and minimal-to-none flex ducts. Everytime people talk about flex duct the entire house, I tell them to get that **** atta here!!! In reality, every residential build has flex duct

Alternatively, if you want to go all $$out$$, look into Mitsubishi or Daikin inverter (mini-split type condenser) system w/ central evaporator coils; I would not recommend this to anyone because the system is too expensive and you'll never recover your initial cost.

Diesel Dan · Aug 29, 2018

LOONG overdue update.

HVAC is up and running.
-Fujitsu mini splits
-18K outside condensing units
-2 units, both dual zone. One per floor.
-two 9k wall mounts, one 7k wall mount and one 9K ducted unit that feeds two smaller bdrms.

Went the DIY route and even received my EPA cert so I now have both 608/609s. Already had a small robinar 2 stage vac pump, bought new gauges for the 410a, micron gauge and nitrogen regulator.

Main recommendation to those DIY people, do not use the factory flares on the line sets. They are terrible!

Will try to post pic of the outside later.

aunsafe2015 · Aug 30, 2018

Diesel Dan said:
LOONG overdue update.

HVAC is up and running.
-Fujitsu mini splits
-18K outside condensing units
-2 units, both dual zone. One per floor.
-two 9k wall mounts, one 7k wall mount and one 9K ducted unit that feeds two smaller bdrms.

Went the DIY route and even received my EPA cert so I now have both 608/609s. Already had a small robinar 2 stage vac pump, bought new gauges for the 410a, micron gauge and nitrogen regulator.

Main recommendation to those DIY people, do not use the factory flares on the line sets. They are terrible!

Will try to post pic of the outside later.

What ducted unit did you use? One of the slim duct systems? http://www.fujitsugeneral.com/us/products/split/s-duct/index.html

If so, how do you like it?

How's the dehumidification capability of the entire setup?

Where'd you do the EPA cert and get the study materials? I've been thinking about doing the epa cert so I can go full diy on my next mini split project...

Diesel Dan · Aug 30, 2018

EPA materials through local plumbing/hvac store that also proctored the test. Probably could have found it cheaper online but went locally.

Yes on the slim duct, have the 9K version. No complaints with the system yet.

System pulls out a fair amount of moisture but I do run a point of use dehumidifier as well. To be honest I haven't read up on the controls and using the "dry" function yet. It's a work in progress, ERV piping is installed but I have duct work to run in the attic yet. With that piping I could also install a whole house dehumidifier if need be.

Bought the Fujitsu components through supply house in Nashville cheaper than online too.

mrpizza · Aug 30, 2018

I just did a full room by room heat load on a 3200 sqft house today and it only calls for a 3.5 ton system.

victoriabam · Aug 31, 2018

These ducted split system brand guide is quite helpful. These tips are working for me so far.

yeldogt · Sep 1, 2018

Diesel Dan said:
LOONG overdue update.

HVAC is up and running.
-Fujitsu mini splits
-18K outside condensing units
-2 units, both dual zone. One per floor.
-two 9k wall mounts, one 7k wall mount and one 9K ducted unit that feeds two smaller bdrms.

Went the DIY route and even received my EPA cert so I now have both 608/609s. Already had a small robinar 2 stage vac pump, bought new gauges for the 410a, micron gauge and nitrogen regulator.

Main recommendation to those DIY people, do not use the factory flares on the line sets. They are terrible!

Will try to post pic of the outside later.

So you went with head units ?? It sounded like you had the ductwork in the house? I did the concealed duct systems for my place in the city -- it was a great way to hide everything in a 4 story -- the house is only 18' wide.

Diesel Dan · Sep 4, 2018

yeldogt said:
So you went with head units ?? It sounded like you had the ductwork in the house? I did the concealed duct systems for my place in the city -- it was a great way to hide everything in a 4 story -- the house is only 18' wide.

Three head units and one concealed duct due to sizing.

Since I did not work with a architect (tried finding one) the floor trusses weren't designed properly for duct runs. It was going to be a PITA to find a good solution. Well actually, I think the mini split WAS the good solution. Rooms can be adjusted on the fly and the whole house now has some redundancy built into it with two condensing units.

While I'm sure the home is not 100% text book correct I feel it is levels above many, many homes I've been in over the years.

When I mention I'll do better on the next one I'm sure you can imagine the wifes response! :lol_hitti

Diesel Dan · Oct 26, 2020

Time for another update.
3 cooling seasons have gone by now and systems are still working good.
Now it's time to clean the interior blower wheels of the wall mount units. My research finds the Mitsubishi units are easier to R&R than the Fujitsu.

Hopefully since most construction work is done the cages will stay cleaner, longer now.

Something I was less than thrilled to see was the amount of corrosion on the evaporator end plates.

Diesel Dan · Oct 26, 2020

Pic of one outside unit:

Diesel Dan · Dec 8, 2021

Well the idea behind having two compressor units for redundancy was a good one.
The lower level is not functioning properly and not going into heat mode. Second floor still purring along.

Haven't noticed any flashing lights indicating trouble codes on the wall units. The compressor will run and feel heat in the lines outside but the wall units don't discharge any heat. Tried running one head at a time, no luck or with both on simultaneously.

When in heat mode the discharge vents should be pointing down (position 5/6?) and when in cool mode horizontal (position 1/2). The units acting up in heat mode has the vents in position 1/2 and can not run fan speed on high. Switch mode to cool and fan increases. Don't think a low charge would affect this.

Searching the web for a diagnostic flow chart or service manual.

Other than this they have been working good for 4 seasons now.
With all the interior walls insulated with rockwool and solid core doors there has been some pretty decent temp swings between rooms. Wife is having hot flashes so there has been times the master bedroom was 60-62*F while the other rooms 70*F. She definitely likes the individual control.

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