LS Starrett 924 ½ and Reed 2C simultaneous Vise restoration.

Last summer I found a deal on a Wilton 3C that I couldn't pass up.

It was pretty beat when I found it, but I ended up getting it for free after I sold the Anvil and Welding table that I bought it with. Paid $500 for the whole set and made that all back and then sum when I sold the other items. Along with restoring that vise I made a set of custom interchangeable dove tail jaws for it as I do a lot of work using shaft clamps while custom tuning mountian bike suspension.

So I needed another vise like I needed a new hole in my head. At some point last summer I came across a swivel jaw Starrett. I was blown away with the quality of it, but the guy just wanted way too much money for it for me to justify having two vises. However the feel of the Starrett's screw and the quality of the casting and machining blew me away. Along comes last week and I stumble upon a Starrett 924 ½ locally for a reasonable price. I go meet the guy in a local grocery store parking lot (full on tweaker, most likely living out f his car) Says the vise came from his dead dad's work bench. I actually believe him. He wanted $300 for it and I offer him $150. He refuses at first, and as I get in my truck to drive away he changes his mind.

It's actually not in horrible shape either. Funny, this is one of those cant pass it up deals that I doubt I would have tried to get past the ex-wife as how the hell do I justify the need for two vises?

Still has a bit of reminantes of the original paint too. At first inspection, it's amazing how much nicer the casting is on the Starretts than the Wilton vises. It took me a **** ton of work o the casting to get the Wilton as smooth as it ended up turning out. The Starrett is in its own league in terms of how much better the castings are over the Wilton's. Thats a sign of more things to come as I tear it down. I have ZERO Idea of the age of this vise. I do not see any type of date code listed on it anywhere.

The original jaws are in decent shape. Not perfect, but still very serviceable. However I will be making custom jaws for this. Note how they used slotted screws to attach the jaws. When I saw those I was fear full of them being a ***** to remove.

Turns out they where really easy to remove with a #4 hollow ground screw driver.

Now, instead of using a typical counter bored screw hole and standard machine screw, Starrett used screws with a tapered head to better align the jaws. Should we be surprised since this is made by the Same company that makes precision measuring tools?


Instead of just a standard shelf on the Wilton, They used a center machined channel to increased the rigidity of the Jaws.

The static Jaws use longer screws than the dynamic jaws.

The main nut for the vise is retained with a dove tail system and is held in place in the rear by a pressed in pin. I think the Wilton's center nut design is far superior, but the Screw threads Starrett used are way better, especially with its anti backlash system. More on that latter.

I couldn't press the pin out with my arbor press. I suspect it's a grooved pin that locks into position when pressed in. I'm going to soak in it Kroil, before I try again, but I bit I'll have to heat it prior to pressing it out. We will see.

Moving on to the Dynamic jaw, the screw is retained inside of it, by a spring system that takes up the screw backlash. The spring is retained in place by a cotter pin. Sure seems like a roll pin would have been a much better choice here. I'll probably replace it with one.

I was able to pull the cotter pin out easily using a set of pliers.

I could then pull the screw out of the dynamic jaw.

The spring is captured on either end by a bushing. I tossed these, the jaws and jaw screws into the ultra sonic to clean them up. Now that we can see the screw thread, it's important to note, thats not a standard ACME thread. It's a buttress thread, which is way stronger in the direction that the clamping force is applied. Very smart. The quality in which the threads are ground combined with the anti backlash system is why the Starrett vise screws fell so much better to turn. Far more precision than the Wilton's.

Now, just like on the Wilton's they didnt use a Thrust bearing for the screw. You can actually see how the casting has worn here. Just like I did on the Wilton, I will bore this out and install a thrust bearing.

Unlike on the Wilton There is way more material here to work with. Id say this is easily 4X thicker than the same area is on my much larger Wilton 3C.

Looking down the interior of the Dynamic jaw casting, we can see just how much better the casting is than on the Wilton. Dont get me wrong the Wilton 3C is one of the best vises you can get, but they command a stupid high price. The Starrett's on the other hand are far superior in the quality of the castings and in the machining of the surfaces, and not to mention the screw design. Yet, it seems most people dont understand or know about the quality of the Starrett's so they tend to go for way lower prices (or at least from what I have seen around here in the PNW). It's kind of like when you find that $20 bottle of really good wine, that competes well against a $2k bottle.

Un like the Wilton, the Starratte handle is pined onto the screw shaft. I tried to press the pin out on the arbor press, but it wont budge, so It's also getting the Kroil treatment. I gotta go back on the road for a few more weeks of work, so it might be a bit before I get back to the vise, but I think this is going to be a fun project to dial in.

The Wilton is beautiful, looking forward to pics of the Starrett.

Nice job on the Wilton. What is that color? Going to paint the Starrett the same?

Threadkiller said:

Nice job on the Wilton. What is that color? Going to paint the Starrett the same?

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It is a Lumibase electrico blue automotive paint over an epoxy and 2k primer with a 3k polyurethane top coat.

Here is a link to the start of my Wilton 3C restoration

Thank you!

Nice build on the Wilton! Looking forward to this one!

What happens when you leave your shop for some time unoccupied with a Wilton 3C and an unprotected LS Starrett vise?


They some how reproduce like rabbits in the middle of the night, and you end up with a Reed 2C without any major damage to my wallet. I never thought I would have the need for more than 1 quality vise. Some how, I now have 3 very high-quality vises. Now that I am almost caught up with bike maintain and photo editing, time to start working on both of the vises.


The Wilton 3C has 6" jaws,

The Reed 2C has 4.5" Jaws, as does the Starrett 924

So the Starrett and the Reed 2C are similar sized vises. However, the Reed is built way heavier than the Starrett and beefier than a comparable sized Wilton as well! More on that shortly.

The Reed 2C uses a split nut to retain the screw. This is way beefier than the Starrets pin, and it still allows you to accommodate for backlash as the screw wears, same as the Starrett. The Wilton has no means to compensate for screw wear / backlash. In order to get the split nut out there is a set screw that needs to be removed bellow the oil port. Its fully seized in there, so its going to need a good soaking of Kroil, along with the split nut and the screws holding in the removable jaws.

With the Dynamic Jaws out, the Reed 2C's slide is significantly taller than the Starrett 924. The Reed's slide is 3.75 tall, about the same as the Wilton 3C the Starrett is only 2-⅞" tall.

The Dynamic Jaw is significantly taller on the Reed as well.

The Reed uses two pins to hold in each set of pipe Jaws. The Wilton only used one set screw for each and those are known to fall out, so on my Wilton, I drilled a hole to accept a dog point set screw in the pipe jaws using a carbide drill.

The tongue on the Starrett that supports the dynamic jaw is 3.5" long, and it is hollow.

It's the same length on the Reed 2c, but on the Reed it's solid. The Wilton doesn't have any tongue supporting the dynamic jaw.

The nut on the Reed is Steel and is significantly taller than the cast nut on the Starrett. The Starrett uses buttressed threads. I haven't cleaned up the Reed enough to tell exactly what it has.

There is no doubt the rear nut on the Wilton is far superior to both the Reed and the Starrett designs.

Whats surprising is on the Reed it's just a ¼" roll pin holding the nut in place, granted there isn't much force on this in operation, but I'm surprised its not a solid pin. I bet it was replaced at some point.

There Starrett uses a large diameter solid pin.

Moving along, the Reed has a solid dynamic jaw. The Starrett is hollow.

And here is the Wilton 3C holding the dynamic jaw of the Reed 2C so I can soak the split nut with Kroil.

I'll let it sit overnight and hopefully things start to loosen up. Otherwise, I'll try some heat. I sure as hell dont want to damage that split nut as I doubt a replacement will be easy to find.

The swivel base of the Reed uses a large center pivot bolt. My Wilton has no center bolt. Doesn't matter so much as I mounted the Wilton with out using its swivel base as its almost too tall on my bench as is.

It makes my largest drag link socket look tiny. Luckily it wasn't very tight.

So I could easily spin it out with a very large #8 PBSwiss driver. That slot is massive.

The bearing surface on the center pivot bolt is 1.25"!

Its a ⅞" thread!

The swivel locks easily spun off. They are massive. I'm not a fan of using these at all.

Personally I prefer nuts and an actual wrench to tighten them.

The swivel base on the 4.5" Reed 2C is massive. It's built way stronger than the Swivel base for the 6" Wilton 3C! Just look at how positive the teeth are on it!

They drop out via the bottom. If I recall correctly on the Wilton, they pull up form the top. The Reed is a way better design.

The Reed's swivel locks are a ¾" thread. The Wilton only uses ⅝. So as you can see the much smaller Reed is built heavier than the Wilton 3C! granted the Wilton 3C still weighs way more, as it should, but I have a feeling the Reed in a similar sized would be the winner.

Without the swivel base, the Reed 2C sits 10" tall, as does the Starrett. So they are essentially the same size.

The top of the casting on the Wilton is 11.75"

I used a starter punch to get the Nut retaining pin to start to move on the Reed.

I then followed up with a standard Starrett pin punch.

Its a ¼" roll pin.

I then used a large brass drift to tap the nut out.

I then used a Starrett center punch to place two witness marks to indicate the rear of the nut.

I did the same on the bottom of the casting.

Before I left on on the Starrett months ago, I tried to soak the pin holding the nut in with Kroil, so figured I'd try again now to tap it out. No luck from the bottom side. I then tried from the top and still no luck, so it's going to soak in Kroil again overnight, before I try again with heat. More to come.

I let Kroil do its work for the last 24 hours.

The screws for the dynamic jaws still wouldn't budge, so I gave them some heat from my blow torch.

5 minutes latter, I was able to break them free using a drag link socket.

And then spin them out using a #6 PBSwiss hollow ground driver. I really like these, as they dont cam out or damage fasteners like a standard wedge shaped flat head.

The Reed 2C sues the same tapered head style screws for the Jaws as the Starrett does.

I could then tap the jaw off using a brass drift.

Unlike the Wilton and the Starrett, the Reed also uses a center pin for the Jaws. Seems overkill.

On to the set screw for the screws split nut. I gave ti the old heat / Kroil / heat cycle treatment. Still wouldn't budge. I really didnt want to resort to drilling it out, as I really dont want to risk damaging the split nut.

Figured I tri the largest PBSwiss flat head bit I have in my Festool impact. Damn bit shattered right away. Granted those bits are not impact rated, but they are way better than the cheap Milwaukee ****. Just goes to show how stubborn that set screw is. I'd try my impact wrench, but I have no bits that will work with it.

I've been thinking for a while I should get an OxyAceteline setup. Doubt I'd use it enough to justify new prices, and they always seem to be available used for really cheap prices, when I dont need one. But when I could use one, none are to be found. Then I dawned on me I have two blow torch heads, so fired them both up. One running propane, the other MAP gas. didnt take long and the whole dynamic jaw was smoking hot.

A #5 PBSwiss driver was able to easily remove the set screw. I promptly dropped it on the floor and it rolled under the Bridgeport. It can stay there for the night as it was hotter than those new in boxes tools listed on Craigslist.

I was then able to easily tap the split nut around to get it mostly out using a brass drift.

I could then unthread it using my Knipex pliers.

The slots in the split nut are designed for the set screw to reach into, thus locking it in position. Smart.

the split nut is interesting. It's a cast part, with machined cut threads. Sure looks like its broken and not meant to be split.

However thats the design. Once the threads were cut into the cast nut, they then used a chisel to split the ring in half. Seems to me if you are going to go through that much trouble, it would make sense to at least cut it in half!

Behind the split nut is a thrust washer. This is way smarter than the Wilton and the Starrett system. It's also designed to be oild via the oil port on the right side of the dynamic jaw. This is so much better thought out that other vises. My plan is to upgrade this to a Thurst bearing such as I did on the Wilton.

Look at how there is no wear to the casting with this system. Unlike the Starrett that I showed above. Proof it works!

With the dynamic jaw, still literally smoking hot, I used a brass drift to dive out the two pressed in pins that hold the pipe jaws in place.


This dual pin press fit system is way more secure than the wilton's, but it still leaves some room for improvement. We will tackle that latter.

Cast Iron can really hold its heat. Even more so, when the dynamic jaw is literally on fire. Something caught fire behind the pipe jaws, so no wonder it kept smoking.

The dynamic jaw casting is really nice, but its not quite as refined as that on the Starrett, but thats ok as there is no benefit to a nicer casing here.

The inside of the casting has the letter "N". No idea what it means. I have yet to find any date code on this vise. More to come tomorrow, but these parts are literally smoking hot, so they are stay where they are until the am, when I can pick them up.

Grant Gunderson said:

the split nut is interesting. It's a cast part, with machined cut threads. Sure looks like its broken and not meant to be split.

However thats the design. Once the threads were cut into the cast nut, they then used a chisel to split the ring in half. Seems to me if you are going to go through that much trouble, it would make sense to at least cut it in half!

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I've seen this technique before. If I'm not mistaken, breaking the casting vs cutting it is preferable because the halves will key together nicely once reassembled along the unique fractures.

MadeByMiller said:

I've seen this technique before. If I'm not mistaken, breaking the casting vs cutting it is preferable because the halves will key together nicely once reassembled along the unique fractures.

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That makes sense. Just learned something new. Thanks! That’s why I enjoy reading things down. You almost always learn something in the process.

Grant Gunderson said:

That makes sense. Just learned something new. Thanks! That’s why I enjoy reading things down. You almost always learn something in the process.

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I think I saw this on something Tom Lipton of Ox Tools was showing. Kind of cool to utilize something as chaotic as broken material to do something precise that can't be replicated via CNC. Another feature, there's no material loss like would occur when cutting, no kerf!

Great job so far, I'm excited to see the progress!

Grant Gunderson said:

Cast Iron can really hold its heat. Even more so, when the dynamic jaw is literally on fire. Something caught fire behind the pipe jaws, so no wonder it kept smoking.

The dynamic jaw casting is really nice, but its not quite as refined as that on the Starrett, but thats ok as there is no benefit to a nicer casing here.

The inside of the casting has the letter "N". No idea what it means. I have yet to find any date code on this vise. More to come tomorrow, but these parts are literally smoking hot, so they are stay where they are until the am, when I can pick them up.

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I'm pretty sure I saw that Reed pop up on CL. It was waaaaaaaay too far for me. I'm glad someone on GJ landed it. I'll be watching this thread for tips on a 3C that I'll be working on soon.

Grant Gunderson said:

Cast Iron can really hold its heat. Even more so, when the dynamic jaw is literally on fire. Something caught fire behind the pipe jaws, so no wonder it kept smoking.

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It's said that, in days of old, mechanics would hide a hundred dollar bill inside their bench vise, for that rainy day.

Regarding the split nut - Jacobs uses the same technique in their drill chucks; the nut is cast with score lines diametrically opposed.

The fracture split is also used in engine connecting rods, https://mitchell1.com/shopconnectio...nnecting rods, however,“snapped” from the rod.

lg
no neat sig line

Mr. Wonderful said:

I'm pretty sure I saw that Reed pop up on CL. It was waaaaaaaay too far for me. I'm glad someone on GJ landed it. I'll be watching this thread for tips on a 3C that I'll be working on soon.

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I got pretty lucky when this one popped up. When I went to get it, they guy said he had 10 people that wanted it, but I was the first to call.

paulsomlo said:

It's said that, in days of old, mechanics would hide a hundred dollar bill inside their bench vise, for that rainy day.

Regarding the split nut - Jacobs uses the same technique in their drill chucks; the nut is cast with score lines diametrically opposed.

Click to expand...

haha! Money tends to burn fast. So pretty sure this was wild oil / grease burning. I've seen split nuts before, but not where they fractured them like this.

larry_g said:

The fracture split is also used in engine connecting rods, https://mitchell1.com/shopconnection/fracture-split-connecting-rods-no-thats-not-a-broken-part/#:~:text=Fracture-split connecting rods, however,“snapped” from the rod.

lg
no neat sig line

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Interesting. I this day and age of CNC, its interesting how an old method still has advantages.

More heat and I was able to get the static jaws off.

Along with the pipe jaws.

One of the pins holding them in was quite bent.

While I had the torch out, I moved on to getting the nut retaining pin out of the Starrett.

Once again, I got it hot enough to start smoking.

With enough **** burned out from around the pin, I noticed what looked like 3 punch marks. Ok, this is telling me, they used a mechanical means of securing the pin from the bottom. I need to try to tap it out from the tap side.

And we have progress!

Now this is interesting. The pin has 3 sets of grooves cut into it. These are tapered Grove pins. The three grooves pinch shut when installed, creating tension to lock in place.

Now both vises are fully town down, time to get them cleaned up.

Finally had time to get back to the Vice restorations.
Decided to go with Powder coat for these. This prismatic paint swatch is a dead match for the Lumabase I used on the Wilton and my shop cabinets / machines.


Turns out it was way to bright, the powder coat guys said in hindsight we should have done a black base coat then it, but that would have increased the cost by quite a bit. I also picked up a 5" Dawn off set vice too.

Still looks damn good. When I get around to it I will emboss the text with White.


I was going to mount the Wilton 3C on the main bench, but it's too tall, so it will go on a lower height bench. The Dawn is slated for my dedicated suspension bench. So that leaves ether the Starrett or the REED for my main bench. Thoughts?