To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Dynasty 400 vs Invertig 251

R

R_Holiday

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
72
Location
North Carolina
I currently have an HTP invertig 251. It’s a year and a half old and has been great. I use the miller wireless foot pedal with it and a Ck worldwide flexloc since I mainly do stainless steel exhausts. I’m gonna need to weld some thicker mild steel in a few months, 3/8” to 1/2”. There’s a used 2017 dynasty 400 with 219 hours that I could probably get for under $4000. The dynasty doesn’t come with any leads but I already have the Ck torch and wireless pedal to use for now. I can also make the ground clamp and power cable easy enough. Is the miller at that price worth it considering the invertig is still under warranty and has been very good thus far?
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
B

BigMike782

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2008
Messages
1,812
Location
49120
I'm a huge Miller fan boy but........
If the Dynasty lets the magic smoke out it's going to be very painful to fix.......if boards are available.
 
OP
R

R_Holiday

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
72
Location
North Carolina
BigMike782 said:
I'm a huge Miller fan boy but........
If the Dynasty lets the magic smoke out it's going to be very painful to fix.......if boards are available.
Click to expand...
That’s definitely something to think about. I might have time to check it out and test it sometime this week. Is there anything in particular I should be looking out for considering the low hours on the machine?
 
B

bdbecker

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Nov 18, 2015
Messages
5,525
Location
Iowa
As far as what to look for, if it runs, it runs. There really isn't much when it comes to preventative maintenance on them other than to blow out the dust and change the chiller filter and coolant (if it has a chiller). They are a workhorses. Out of the fourteen 400's at work that have been in production use for years without issue (oldest being a 2017 MY), we have only had to retire one unit, and that was due to physical damage from a careless operator.

That seems like a solid price for a lightly used machine. Just be aware that you can reset arc timer on the display of those machines. The actual machine hours of the machine is permanently stored, but you'd need to access that using software that repair techs have. If the machine looks like it is in good shape (condition matches the hours), then I'd believe the 219 hour reading. If it looks beat, someone may have reset the hours on the display at some point and might be trying to pull a fast one.

Pages 54 & 55 shows you how to see some of the background info, including arc time, arc starts, and the error log...
 
OP
R

R_Holiday

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
72
Location
North Carolina
bdbecker said:
As far as what to look for, if it runs, it runs. There really isn't much when it comes to preventative maintenance on them other than to blow out the dust and change the chiller filter and coolant (if it has a chiller). They are a workhorses. Out of the fourteen 400's at work that have been in production use for years without issue (oldest being a 2017 MY), we have only had to retire one unit, and that was due to physical damage from a careless operator.

That seems like a solid price for a lightly used machine. Just be aware that you can reset arc timer on the display of those machines. The actual machine hours of the machine is permanently stored, but you'd need to access that using software that repair techs have. If the machine looks like it is in good shape (condition matches the hours), then I'd believe the 219 hour reading. If it looks beat, someone may have reset the hours on the display at some point and might be trying to pull a fast one.

Pages 54 & 55 shows you how to see some of the background info, including arc time, arc starts, and the error log...
Click to expand...
****…I didn’t know you could reset the arc timer. Here are some pics of the machine in for reference. I have heard that the 400s were serious workhorses…I just checked that link you posted. It’s not even hidden to reset the hours. That makes me really think now. As you can see there’s no cooler with the 400.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_8427.png
    IMG_8427.png
    2.5 MB · Views: 14
  • b83e0083c477539b739124fb443fd20b.jpeg
    b83e0083c477539b739124fb443fd20b.jpeg
    148.6 KB · Views: 14
  • ef78e8e1fdd8b7e4ba9f43ab8fa4eb0a.jpeg
    ef78e8e1fdd8b7e4ba9f43ab8fa4eb0a.jpeg
    165 KB · Views: 14
  • IMG_8428.png
    IMG_8428.png
    1.5 MB · Views: 13
  • 4743a8c8b06020b1184fec8f6833746f.jpeg
    4743a8c8b06020b1184fec8f6833746f.jpeg
    152.1 KB · Views: 12
Last edited:
B

bdbecker

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Nov 18, 2015
Messages
5,525
Location
Iowa
R_Holiday said:
...Here are some pics of the machine in for reference...
Click to expand...

It looks like a 9 year old machine that spent it's life in a fab shop. While the general condition doesn't bother me, ideally it would have a little less wear and tear on it, but some guys are just a little rougher on stuff. I don't see anything that alarms me with those pics. The electrode stab in on the display is a little annoying, but at least it still appears to be functional.

For what it's worth, the MY2017 Dynasty 400 we have in the shop shows 4068 hours on it. Knowing what I know about how we run things, that works out to about 10 hours of arc-on time per week over it's lifespan. 20-25% arc-on time over the life of the machine is actually pretty impressive when you consider that a 10-12% arc-on time is considered industry average.

If you don't trust the hours in the pic, you can flip that industry average around and, assuming that the shop you are buying the welder from is "average", that machine likely has around 2100 hours on it (9 years x 52 weeks/year x 4.5 hours/wk arc-on time). I doubt it has more than 4000 hours on it like ours.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
OP
R

R_Holiday

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
72
Location
North Carolina
bdbecker said:
It looks like a 9 year old machine that spent it's life in a fab shop. While the general condition doesn't bother me, ideally it would have a little less wear and tear on it, but some guys are just a little rougher on stuff. I don't see anything that alarms me with those pics. The electrode stab in on the display is a little annoying, but at least it still appears
Click to expand...
Thanks for all that info. I definitely have to think hard about it. If the hours are correct I think it would be worth it since I’m not an industrial welder. It just would be nice to be able to weld 1/2” material without having to do like 4-5 passes. I would hate to buy it and the hours have indeed been reset since my htp has been good to me so far. Apart from the extra amperage my MiG welder is also a miller and I do like having the same brand machinery.
 
M

MoonRise

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 5, 2010
Messages
4,021
Location
NJ
You have the sufficient electrical service available to run that beast?

Single phase 230V needs a 70 amp circuit and minimum 8 AWG supply conductors per the manual. 3 phase is just a little less.

1/2" thick workpieces are going to usually require multiple passes no matter what. Root, fill(s), cap. Depending on joint configuration. Even with 400 amps available.
 
OP
R

R_Holiday

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
72
Location
North Carolina
MoonRise said:
You have the sufficient electrical service available to run that beast?

Single phase 230V needs a 70 amp circuit and minimum 8 AWG supply conductors per the manual. 3 phase is just a little less.

1/2" thick workpieces are going to usually require multiple passes no matter what. Root, fill(s), cap. Depending on joint configuration. Even with 400 amps available.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the extra info. I do have the electrical service but I decided to pass on it because of what you mentioned about needed the extra passes regardless. My HTP works great and I already have multiple torches and foot pedals for it. I appreciate all the info. I didn’t even know there was a fabrication section here so I can get some good advice from you pros.
 
S

sqznby

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 26, 2013
Messages
978
Location
Coastal NC
If you don't mind me asking. Where about in NC are you or the machine located?

If you're already set up with a mig, why not use that? Unless it calls for tig specifically, just curious.
 
OP
R

R_Holiday

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
72
Location
North Carolina
sqznby said:
If you don't mind me asking. Where about in NC are you or the machine located?

If you're already set up with a mig, why not use that? Unless it calls for tig specifically, just curious.
Click to expand...
I’m in Sanford. The machine was in Mt Pleasant. Looks like it’s now sold so even if didn’t change my mind on it I would’ve missed out. My MiG is a Millermatic 211. Not enough amps for that thickness. I also love tig welding more than MiG.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom